Flying with RF MA

We will be taking our first plane ride with DD (17 mos - RF in MA in both vehicles - 23 lbs - 30 inches.)

I have searched both FAA and Southwest Airlines websites and they both say 20-40lbs needs to be FF. I really want to keep DD RF.

I will try installing it RF and say that I am using it in accordance with the limits stated by the manufacturer, but if they force me to install it FF should I re-route the harness so that they straps are above her shoulders?

Thanks so much!

You can leave it RFing. We have several times. It is a RECOMMENDATION that kids from 20-40 pounds ride FF, but they also recommend that after 40 pounds a child uses the lap belt. Any seat that is FAA approved is FAA approved to its limits. The FAA will hopefully update it's recommendations soon as the recommendations for turning forward go up in weight.

However, we have had attendants tell us many times that she HAS to be forward facing. The last time I sent the lady back to get the manual to show her she was wrong while I started switching the seat. Sure enough, she came back with the manual and said that "In 38 years she can still learn something new," we were right. DUH. I've also had attendants tell me that she's safer forward facing after 20 pounds and get physically huffy and angry when I refused to turn her. Another attendant came over and said it was my choice, they can only recommend, and I said I preferred her rearfacing (she was only 21 pounds, so just one pound over their arbitrary limit).

Bring the manual of your seat if you want, but it will say right on the side that it's FAA approved RFing to 33 pounds, so you can use it. Don't let them scare you into turning it foward if you don't want to. Plus it's much easier to get it in and out that way. If you do it forward the buckle may not open enough in the back between the plastic pieces to allow you to remove the seat. We've had more than one pilot come back to help us, and we finally learned how to remove the seatbelt itself from the plane to take care of the problem ourselves.

Oh, you cannot install a seat on the rearfacing seats on some Southwest 737s. Just so you know.

And, FYI, we're sitting in Miami's Admiral's Club awaiting our flight home (we have our Radian on its second air flight, we used our Wizard onboard until January 1 this year). We do this a LOT.

Wendy

Wendy

Thanks, Wendy. I will stand firm with the flight attendants. I just don't want to create a scene.

We are about to go on a trip and I was going to post a similar question... Assuming an infant doesn't need the support of rear-facing, I can't think of any reason rear-facing would be that much safer on an airplane. Also, unless the seat is in the window location a rear-facing seat will be in the way for quick escapes or even normal strolls to the bathrooms. I'm contemplating putting our 10 month old FF, recline position, on the flight. Am I'm missing something here?

All carseats have to be next to a window. All airlines have this as policy. No matter which way they are facing, they would prevent other passengers from quickly getting out of a row.

As the passenger next to a CR, you will be much comfier next to a rfing seat. Next to a ffing seat, you lose a ton of shoulder room. You probably won't be able to install the seat ffing in the recline position. IT is hard enough to get it in tightly ffing upright. The back of the CR will not be flush iwith the seat if you use the recline mode ffing. And if you have a Britax seat, you will be swearing up a storm trying to release the seat ffing after the flight. Rfing is much easier to install and release on an airplane, due to the buckle hitting right behind the seat, not off to the side, like in a car.

A child should face the direction they would in a car. Turbulence can cause injuries, just like those on the road. The neck can be pulled forward just like in a car. Rfing will reduce the risk of the neck injury.

After turbulance, the next biggest danger to children on planes is runway accidents. The ones where the plane doesn't stop and ends up on the freeway, hits a barrier, stuff like that. And those crash dynamics are just the same as in a car. Plane goes boom, people go foward (and we lucky ones are just in lap belts with trays in front of us to smoosh our faces on. Compartmentalization only works so well without the padding).

For turbulance, you want your child restrained safely. A harness, since most tots don't fit well with just the lap belt. Severe turbulance can cause sudden drops or movement side to side. Not 100% like a car, but similar. For falling out of the sky it honestly probably doesn't matter if they're rear or foward, in a seat or not. They're not likely to survive. For the runway accidents it's very similar to a car and you'd want them to have the safety just like they would in your own vehicle. So two out of three say do what you do normally. And the other one says it doesn't matter.

And yes, all child seats must be by the window. I saw a lady once traveling with her toddler and infant (alone, too) and she had her toddler by the window FF in his seat and her infant RFing next to her. She was in the aisle seat. That's the only time I've seen two seats in the same row.

The exception to the seat next to the window is if you're in the middle section of a dual aisle airplane. Coming back from Europe we were in the middle of a five seat section. I put Piper's seat RFing in the middle seat. That way it was still away from the routes of escape (though it was a bulkhead seat and so there was tons of room to go around it).

Wendy

I'm the unregistered above. Thanks for the information. We fly internationally so the window install isn't always an option. Just trying to convince Flight staff that it is ok to bring the car-seat on a plane can be a major ordeal. I now bring the manual with me or copy the appropriate pages. RF is definitely easier for feeding baby. But, I've used our roundabout FF and solved the buckle problem by flipping it one time before installing and reclining the seat to get it unbuckled. Based on your advice I will put the 10 month old RF. You know most times when we fly people are amazed we have purchased a seat for our infant. I do it for convenience and safety. I wish it were a requirement. The bassinets are a joke sometimes. They do have a safety net on them for turbulence, but I can't see how it would protect the neck and spine like a car-seat. On one United flight the bassinet was literally a canvas bag that they wanted me to set on the floor in front of me.

Ok, i maybe stupid but is this a rule in the us that you have to use carseats in planes for a child under 40 pounds? Planes are the safest way to travel long distances. How many times in a year does a plane roll over the runway in your homecity wendy?

Also(for the OP) most of the time, if you just stroll on and act as if you know what

you're doing, then the flight attendants won't even bother you. They really don't want to hassle with a seat, and if you seem to have it under control, they will most of the time just leave you alone. Smile, be really nice , and just install the seat quickly. If you're out of the way and your kid is happy---they most likely won't care. Have fun!

Unregistered said:

Ok, i maybe stupid but is this a rule in the us that you have to use carseats in planes for a child under 40 pounds? Planes are the safest way to travel long distances. How many times in a year does a plane roll over the runway in your homecity wendy?

Click to expand...

No, it's not. Hopefully it will be soon. Under the age of two you don't even need a seat for your child, you can hold them on your lap. In case of a problem, though, they'll be wrapped in blankets and put under the seat in front of you. Which as awful as it sounds IS a lot safer than trying to have Mom hold onto a 15 pound projectile (15 pounds x 600 mph = 9000 pounds).

The FAA recommendations (and that's all they are, recommendations) are that from 0-20 pounds you RF your child, from 20-40 you FF them, and from 40+ they use the lap belt.

Planes are statistically the safest way to travel, it is true. I think there have only been three or four runway incidents since I moved here seven years ago (including emegency landings). But I'm not willing to take that chance that today won't be one of them. The same argument is used for why people don't buckle when they're only going to the store. "It's just down the road, nothing ever happens." You willing to place your child's life on that bet? I'd be you five dollars, nothing more, and certainly not put my child on the line. Piper is in her carseat for the entirety of every flight, strapped in (unless she needs to use the restroom, or it's such a long flight we all get up to walk, but those aren't as common and the girl has a bladder of steel). She will remain in her carseat for as long as possible, since it harnesses to 65 pounds. She is so slender that in her specific case I can't see the lapbelt hugging her hips well enough for a long time. She simply doesn't take up enough room. But I would recommend that every child sit in a carseat on a plane. We didn't buy seats for Piper until she was 13 months old (which as an added disadvantage, she didn't get miles for those flights) and now I look back on that and cringe and wonder how something didn't happen. We have been on flights where her harnesses was needed. Turbulance. So severe the flight attendant fell over on someone seconds before they were told to sit back down. Piper had been standing in her seat. As soon as that flight attendant fell over Piper got strapped in, and I could feel myself moving against my seatbelt, so I know Piper's harness was holding her in. THAT could happen nearly every flight.

Wendy

Not Wendy, but we had a plane roll off the runway at Midway Airport in Chicago last winter. The plane slid into traffic and killed a child in a car on the street.

Sharlene

Do they let you preboard the flight why the carseat or do you install it in the chaos? I'v seen MANY kids as tall as your's whitout a carseat in turbulance, and no one got hurt (they said that it was only funny).

Going down the road is just a diffrent thing than a 3000 mile planeride. What comes to the safety of airplanes, I remember this accient when half of the planes roof was gone, and the people whit the seatbelt were saved, including small kids.

Most of the planes have a backupsystem for three backupsystems so its more likely that you broke your leg when walking the dog than get hurt in a plane.

Southwest Airlines lets you preboard.

I preboard, but I'm getting fast enough with the Radian that pretty soon we won't have to. But I like having the space so Piper isn't underneath me while I'm installing it. So she sits elsewhere, I get it in, then she comes over, usually while first class and the back of the plane is boarding. By the time the people around us are coming on she's already in her seat.

Here's the question. There's a million to one odd your flight is going to be fine and uneventful, that nothing more will happen than a couple of bumps midflight. You willing to stake your child's life on that chance? A million to one is good, but not perfect. If that one happens, you're probably going to be mighty happy for a harness for your child. Lap belts aren't made for little kids. And I don't know all little kids, but mine wouldn't fit well in one, nor would one hold her. She could easily undo it, or worse, just wiggle out. What if I'm napping and we have a freefall? She's going to hit the ceiling, the seats, the luggage that's falling, etc. A million to one it's going to happen, but unless you can guarantee me a million to zero chance then I'm going to do what I can to protect her. Just like I protect her on the off chance we're going to have a car crash. Just like I protect her by making her wear a medic alert bracelet, on the off chance she has a seizure and I'm not right there. It's easier and safer to protect her, since I can.

If you don't want to use a harness on the plane for your child, then fine. That's your choice. I choose to harness mine, and I believe it safer. You do what you want. Not my kid.

Wendy

Another good reason for RF on the plane if you usually RF in the car - not having to rethread the harness into the proper slots! That alone would make it worthwhile to me!

Amen! Also, it's what kiddo is used to. May as well make life as easy as possible for every one.

Wendy

I have never seen a child using a carseat in an aircraft (and fly _ALOT_) yet none of their heads has hitten the roof. Will u take the change to catch the bird disease wandering around the world? The change to get killed by it this far has been one out of 4 258714 (a huge number) and the change to just catch it has been half bigger. My question is that will you lock your child inside when it comes to U.S? The change pretty much doesnt exist in my numbers and it has all happened in Asia. The change is still out there.

You know it kind of seems like you are being a tad argumentative unnecessarily. Sorry if I'm mis-reading your tone. But, it is fine to make whatever decisions you want for yourself and your children, but why would you encourage someone to make a less safe choice, especially since it has no impact on you.

Yes, Life is full of risk. Some you can control, some you can't... Bird flu, West Nile Virus, Lyme disease, the common cold and the flu are ones that we don't have much control over. You can wash your hands a lot, practice some limited preventative measure and you take your chances. But, deciding to put your child in a car-seat on the airplane is hardly fool-hardy. It is just plain convenient and in case of turbulence (I'm not so worried about a crash or running off the runway) prudent too.

I'm about to travel with our 10 mo. old (in addition to our 3 year old.) Both kids will be in their car-seats. I have flown at least 8 times internationally (over 17+ hour or flights) with our now 3 y.o. Except for the very first flight at 6 weeks, we have always used a carseat. Far from imprisoning him, it has been comforting and familar to him. The convenience of having your child secure in the seat cannot be underestimated. It is absolutely one's only hope of a bathroom break, eating a meal or catching a snooze. My 3 y.o. can easily escape the regular seat-belt and the seat just isn't as comfortable as his carseat. And when the fasten seat-belt sign comes on and the plane starts bouncing around, I can't tell you how happy I am to have my child locked it the car-seat. It means my hands are free to clench the armrests tightly. LOL

I agree with you that very few people on the plane use car-seats for their children. But, I believe this has to do mainly with trying to save money if under 1 year old or not wanting to lug a car-seat around the airport. Honestly, if it was just for safety issues alone I might risk going without the car-seat -- knowing how safe airline travel is -- but having the seat on the plane is just so much better. It far than makes up for the hassles of dragging it through the airport and convincing airline staff that it is ok to bring on board. (This is really an issue internationally!) And since we will need the car-seat the second we get in a car in the US (it is the law in most states), why not use the car-seat? It is doing more good on the plane than getting jostled and possible damaged in the cargo hold.

Yep, i dont want to encourege anyone to be unsafe, but what I dont understand is that everything has to be made art nowdays.
When im travelling long distances to holidays i prefere enjoy it already on the flight, and I think that even the youngest kids do aswell (like seeing what the galley is etc.) And if it comes a law in airplanes too, the seat should take no more room that the regular aircraft seat is, and i think it does, rigth?

Some are wider, some aren't. Since every seat other than the bulkheads and first/business class have movable armrests, it's not a big deal. Our wizard is 2 inches wider than most coach seats, and I was never uncomfortable sitting next to it. It was nice to lean against. Though I did have more shoulder room with her RFing.

With the radian it's smaller than the plane's seat, so it fits great. jas, I have a picture from a couple of days ago.



The Radian folds flat and goes into a backpack, so it's nice and easy to carry around.

Oh, and the bird flu has come to the US, at least in birds, and no, I don't lock her inside. But as with planes, I can do the best I can to keep her safe, and if it gets to the point where it's really bad, then she won't be eating any birds. Easy as that.

Wendy