Question for techs - Tethers

Unregistered · Sep 12, 2005

Hi there,

I have a question about the installation of tether anchors in a 2004 Venture. Currently, there is only 1 tether installed on the third row bench. I need to have 3 car seats in the rear row with my home daycare and they are telling me that GM will not install extras.

So,people who have 4 or more kids tend to buy minivans and I would assume that likely, they would have to sometimes put 2 carseats in the rear bench, I can not imagine that they do not tether them, as I absolutely will not.

Any thoughts or experience with this.

Thanks so much

Tamara

Tara · Sep 12, 2005

Not a tech and have no advice....just thoughts..
What!?! They will not install more than the 1 anchor? That's crazy. I admit, I do not have all of my seats tethered. One of those 'just haven't gotten around to it' kind of deals. Currently only the FPSE is tethered because that was the only way I could get a good fit in the center seat, middle row of my Expedition. Dh drilled a hole in the floor and installed the anchor. *bam* done I figured it was just 'that easy', the same would apply to anywhere else we wanted to tether. Back row included. In our Suburban we tethered to the cargo holds, so that gave us 2 spots, one on either side.
Anyway, I'm rambling, sorry.
So, obviously, I'm not a tech, have mentioned my interest in becoming one, but, I have a long way to go yet. Much to learn. Does this mean my seat is improperly anchored?

Unregistered · Sep 12, 2005

Tether law in Canada

We have to have tethors here, so it just makes no sense. I am told GM will not install it because it was not tested that way. Hmm, well that makes buying their van kinda hard then hahaha

Unregistered · Sep 12, 2005

My '99 Sienna has factory drilled holes for tethers only behind the second row outboard and the two outboard in the third row. This makes me nuts because the safest place is in the middle. My manual even says this I think..middle is best!! (Or I might just be remembering the Toyota guy who said put seats in the middle?) Once my dd is ff I will keep her in the middle of the second row figuring she is safer there untethered than outboard tethered. Other dd is in a Husky, third row outboard and tethered. Not sure what I'd do if I had to carry more than the kids I have on a regular basis. Why they can't put holes for anchors behind each seat is a mystery to me. I guess they figure the average family isn't going to need them all so why bother. I was told that no one is going to add a hole in a vehicle for an anchor due to liablity issues. I got a terrible run-around from Ford when I looked into getting an anchor for our truck. Finally one guy leveled with me and said 'that's why no one is helping you'!
C.

SafeDad · Sep 12, 2005

The number of standard and optional top tether anchors varies considerably from one model to another. It varies by year, also. For example, Chrysler introduced their all-new 2001 minivan with 3 anchors available in the 3rd row. New regulations then went into effect that required testing of all anchors in a row at the same time, rather than one at a time. So, rather than re-test or re-engineer, Chrysler removed anchors and only 1 was available in the third row for 2002.

Right now, the 2004+ Sienna offers 4 LATCH positions, 2 in each row. If you get the 8-seat version, you get a total of 5. The 2006 Odyssey offers 2 LATCH in the second row, 1 LATCH in the third row and 2 additional top tether anchors in the third row.

KeikiHula · Sep 12, 2005

Tara said:
Dh drilled a hole in the floor and installed the anchor. *bam* done I figured it was just 'that easy', the same would apply to anywhere else we wanted to tether. Back row included. In our Suburban we tethered to the cargo holds, so that gave us 2 spots, one on either side.
Anyway, I'm rambling, sorry.
So, obviously, I'm not a tech, have mentioned my interest in becoming one, but, I have a long way to go yet. Much to learn. Does this mean my seat is improperly anchored?

Not a tech either, but I don't think you can just drill a hole where ever you want. It has to be a place that is re-enforced. For instance, in my Jeep and in my dh's Blazer, there is no apporved place for a tether anchor. There's a big book that techs have that they can look up any make and model and it tells them where the approved places are to install a tether. Apparently in those books, it says there is no place that's approved for either of my vehicles. Also, the cargo anchors probably aren't a good place to tether your seats too. They aren't tested to be used with carseats. This is totally just my opinion, but I don't think you should tether them to anything other than an original tether anchor, or one that's in an "approved" place.

Tara · Sep 13, 2005

I'll double check on my current anchor spot. When we anchored to cargo holds in the Suburban, I called Britax who said that was safe (as I was using their seats). I assumed that was good enough. It seemed in most cases the car seat folks knew more about the tethering options and such than did the vehicle folks

joolsplus3 · Sep 13, 2005

Post your car and model year precisely and I'll check my book. Dealers rarely know anything, cargo hooks usually aren't ok, and drilling random holes may or may not be actually safe (I'm sure if he'd punctured the gas tank you would know immediately...lol...don't worry, I'm sure he knew what he was doing, but an area DOES have to be fairly reinforced, or the tether will rip out easily in a crash)

j4m4d8 · Sep 13, 2005

I would love to see a law that manufacturers had to put an anchor in for every seat except the driver's. Most of us need flexibility about where to install car seats, and some of us need all those positions. Why not make them as safe as possible?
Unfortunately I doubt you will be able to get anchors installed. So I'll give some suggestions on what to do with the seats (Feel free to ignore

).
I actually measure the head excursion limits when choosing where to install car seats. Your measuring from about 5 inches behind the seat bight forward. The limit is 32 inches without the tether (about 27 inches from the seat bight) and 28 inches with the tether (about 23 inches from the seat bight). This can make you feel slightly better about not tethering.
If the back seats in your Venture adjust, put them all the way back. If you have any rear-facing convertible seats, put one of them in the 3rd row driver's side position so you won't have to tether it. (Remember rear-facing is safest until they reach the maximum weight for it, 30-35 pounds depending on model.) The 3rd row seat on the passenger side shouldn't have a seat in front of it, so it's not the worse position to leave untethered. It's also not a bad spot for an infant seat base. You just have to put the baby in last and take it out first.
Glad to hear somebody is so concerned about the kids they take care of. Hope you find a solution you can be comfortable with.
Julie

Tara · Sep 13, 2005

Ok, feeling really stupid now that I wasn't thinking about 'reinforced' areas. But no, gas tank wasn't drilled through

All is safe there!
Anyway, we have a 98 Ford Expedition. If you have info on tether locations for that, I'd be ever so appreciative

As has been mentioned...the restricted use of tether anchors is rather upsetting to those with big families. I bought a big vehicle so I could fit my entire crew in there. Now, the quest is to do so as safely as possible. I currently have 4 seats in there, January we'll have a 5th. 4 will be convertibles (well, once baby graduates from the infant Snugride), the 5th is a BPB.

Just throwing that info out as well so then if needed, we can reconfigure seating.

I currently have my eldest in BPB, 3rd row, behind passenger. FF Marathon opposite outboard 3rd row. In the middle row I have FF RA outboard behind driver and FPSE FF center. We generally leave that 2nd row outboard, behind passenger, flipped down to allow easy entry to the rear seat.

I had planned on just putting the 2 yr old to the 3rd row when the baby came. Baby RF outboard 2nd row.

joolsplus3 · Sep 13, 2005

Oh Ford is easy and free... they have a code for their form that insists corporate will pay the dealer, and loads of part numbers and locations...but now I'm hiding upstairs away from my LATCH book, and I'll have to look it up later

.

Unregistered · Sep 13, 2005

Thanks everyone

Thanks for all of your replies. We have been told by the dealership that the older models used holed that were predilled in the floor to secure the anchors. Apparantly, these holes exist in the 2004 model, they are just not used. Does anyone have verification on whether or not this is correct and safe, as I would then be able to install aftermarket anchors myself.

We have put off buying this vehicle until we are sure we can have all seats tethered properly. It's serious business to me and I know my daycare parents appreciate it. My son (10 mos) is rear facing and will be for some time, so I will put him in a rear position. Although my DD is 4, she is only 28 lbs, so will be harnessed for a while yet and not ready for a booster. Everyone else still needs a forward facing tethered seat for now.

Tamara

KeikiHula · Sep 14, 2005

Tara said:
I'll double check on my current anchor spot. When we anchored to cargo holds in the Suburban, I called Britax who said that was safe (as I was using their seats). I assumed that was good enough. It seemed in most cases the car seat folks knew more about the tethering options and such than did the vehicle folks

I'm glad Britax said you could use them. I was just thinking about the cargo anchors in my Jeep. When we first got it, I was pretty big and pregnant with Cody, so my dh installed Morgan's FPSE and was so proud of himself that he used the tether (we never had a car that was new enough for tether anchors), and wanted me to check it all out. I got to looking at the cargo anchor. It was one of those square loop things (the same as the actual tether anchors in my Durango), but the place where the ends came together was just squeezed together, not even welded, and the whole thing was pretty thin. I squeeze my fat pregnant body in the backseat and yanked on the tether strap and the whole thing came apart and the tether buckle came flying at my face (yeah, I didn't think that one through all the way...LOL). My dh felt sick b/c he thought he was doing something to make our son safer and in fact, if we had gotten in an accident, it could have really hurt someone to have that tether buckle hit them.
I just wonder how many other people think the same thing and clip the tether on a cargo anchor that's just not strong enough to withstand an accident.

So does anyone know how helpful Dodge is about putting in extra tether anchors? Our local dealership is pretty dumb about everything, so I want to be informed before I go and talk to them. I know some people have had problems with their local Ford dealerships telling them they won't do it, or that they will charge them for it, until the parents push it knowing what Ford's policy really is.

joolsplus3 · Sep 15, 2005

I'm not glad Britax said she could use a cargo anchor... 99.9% of them aren't designed for the loads that a child seat puts on them, and they are putting themselves at a huge risk of liability (not to mention babies necks at risk for injury!) for giving out that info if the car manufacturer doesn't explicitly allow it...

KeikiHula · Sep 15, 2005

Wouldn't Britax know though if they will work? When we first got my Durango, I looked all over and couldn't find "tether anchors" like in most cars. There were 4 cargo anchors, though, and when I looked in the manual, it said they were tether anchors. I've never looked to see what they say to use for cargo anchors, but I'm assuming you can use the tether anchors for both.
It sucks b/c you get so much conflicting information, how do you know what is really safe or not??

Victorious4 · Sep 15, 2005

Yeah - I've felt that way.... I rememberd Darren once said something about a tether anchor that fails still being somewhat more protective than not using one at all, but that doesn't mean go against the manufacturer's recommendation

Tara · Sep 15, 2005

Yeah that's what I was figuring...Britax knew what they were talking about. No tether anchor spots were mentioned in my Suburban's manual, so I called Britax, assuming they'd have answers for me, being the car seat experts and all. So, that's what we came up with. Our cargo hold deals were pretty solid though...welded thick loops, not 'pinched together' But anywho...
From now on I'll be DOUBLE checking things, clearing through vehicle AND car seat manufacturers

And check here and ask Julie hehehe Since she was so helpful in getting me my current info

Victorious4 · Sep 15, 2005

Julie's the bomb!

& Darren & Ulrike & Melissa & any other(s) I forgot

Tara · Sep 15, 2005

LOL
Yes of course, not to the exclusion of anyone else

urmysunshinex3 · Sep 16, 2005

For my 1996 Tahoe and my 1999 Suburban the tether anchors for the 3rd row are the cargo holds closest to the doors at the rear of the vehicle. This information was from Chevrolet. I asked at the time I called and this applies to all Tahoe/Suburbans with this body style. To tether a seat in the middle of the third row you have to get a part (strap) from Chevrolet that connects to the two outer cargo holds and then you tether to it. To tether in the second row of seats you have to get a part from Chevrolet that clicks into the female portion of the seat belt buckle in the third row which makes the third row of seating then useless.

Lynette~CPST and Mom to Victoria 9, Seth and Wyatt 4
Aunt and Foster Mom to Holden 6 and Cooper 5

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