why would you pay twice as much?

No offense meant to anyone, but it bothers me when folks will buy a seat simply for the brand name. I feel that way about buying anything for just the brand, not just carseats. I feel like each seat needs to be evaluated on an individual basis. One brand or one seat will not work for everyone. A brand name should not be the main factor in choosing a seat, it should be the features the seat offers, and the fit to the vehicle and the child. If all other factors are equal and a parent has the funds, by all means, go with the more epensive seat, if that makes you happy. But simply being a Britax does not automatically mean it's a superior seat.

scatterbunny said:

No offense meant to anyone, but it bothers me when folks will buy a seat simply for the brand name. I feel that way about buying anything for just the brand, not just carseats. I feel like each seat needs to be evaluated on an individual basis. One brand or one seat will not work for everyone. A brand name should not be the main factor in choosing a seat, it should be the features the seat offers, and the fit to the vehicle and the child. If all other factors are equal and a parent has the funds, by all means, go with the more epensive seat, if that makes you happy. But simply being a Britax does not automatically mean it's a superior seat.

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I'm not buying it for the name but for the company behind the name. Britax does extra testing, is on top of recalls and has been a leader in the carseat manufacturing of seats (higher weights, etc.) although now everyone else is catching on. Plus they are made in the US.

I contemplated a Signo/Como or a Radian when looking for a seat rf to 35 pounds but to me I just wasn't has comfortable with the seats - I didn't like the cheap/thin feeling of the Recaro harness and the lack of padding/depth of the Radian.

I also routinely recommend the Keyfit and SS1 and in a heartbeat I would buy a Chicco convertable if it offered all that Britax seats do. I Chicco and think they are a great company (customer service is amazing) as well.

So if I sound like a brand snob that's why but it isn't just for Britax, unless something else comes out that I feel is better, my top rec for an infant seat is the Keyfit. It's just harder to see the Chicco "snob" in me since they only have one seat right now!! LOL

I understand what you're saying, I'm just not totally sold on taking the manufacturer's word for it that they're "safer". Many companies are now testing to higher limits than what the federal government requires. Heck, even Evenflo is testing at twice the federal standard. Many companies are testing in side impacts now. Without published results, it's really hard for anyone to assume that one company or one seat is truly safer. It's all a matter of perception, and good marketing on the part of Britax.

This is a serious, not a snarky question -- several people have referred to Britax's "extra testing". Do y'all know something I don't know? I was under the impression that Britax does not release details of their tests. Do we know exactly what the extra testing signifies?

Britax used to say (not sure if they still do) on their boxes something to the effect of testing at twice the federal requirements (I believe I remember something about 60mph). But, they aren't the only ones to test above the federal requirements now, and since we don't even know the results of these tests, I think it doesn't make sense to choose Britax based on extra testing. Any company can TEST above the legal requirements, but that doesn't mean they actually do WELL above the legal requirements. It would be nice if we knew results, but we don't.

the same could be said about any basic convertible, in which britaxes are generally 2 - 3x the cost. i mean, it's like asking why buy a $250 marathon when you can buy a $40 scenera. there are LOTS of reasons why

Here is one of the reason's that I would be willing to spend more on a seat...

Comfort!

Yes. Comfort. When you or I go out to buy a chair, sofa, bed, etc. that we will be using a LOT, we sit in them and base a lot of our choices on how comfortable they are. If we are asking our children to sit in a seat for 2-5 YEARS for long periods of time, then heck yeah I want my son to be comfortable!

It will mean I'll fight him less getting him into the seat, he'll stay comfortable and quiet on car trips, and he'll be more likely to sleep for a larger portion of the trip. That makes my son happy, and his father REALLY happy and much more sane! I mean seriously... Let's take a look at one of the thinner padded seats. Say a Scenara. There is MAYBE a quarter of an inch of not very soft padding on top of a hard plastic shell. Would YOU want to be strapped into that seat for hours at a time, unable to move? I know my ass would fall asleep after only about 30 minutes.

Now let's think about the summer or winter in that seat... Plastic does a really good job of getting either really hot or really cold, and then holding that temperature for a long time. So all there is between me and a hot as hell, or cold as ice hunk of plastic is the aforementioned maybe quarter inch of padding? And I'm supposed to enjoy that? My son is supposed to be happy with that? We amortize out the cost of better seats over multiple years in order to justify higher costs for safety features, so why the hell don't we do the same for comfort?

Me personally? And I'm not trying to question anyone elses parenting decisions here, but I just can't see sacrificing my son's comfort and my sanity for a measly $30 a year... ($150 / 5-years using the Nautilus vs. Frontier scenario.)

chickabiddy said:

This is a serious, not a snarky question -- several people have referred to Britax's "extra testing". Do y'all know something I don't know? I was under the impression that Britax does not release details of their tests. Do we know exactly what the extra testing signifies?

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They have stated that they have no problems, and in fact designed the seats to handle a couple of pounds over the stated weight limit of their seats. They did this because they wanted to give parents time to purchase a new seat once their child hit the printed weight limit. So Britax seats are safe, as confirmed by the manufacturer, for a couple of pounds over their limit.

We have another, more well known car seat manufacturer whose seats, as shown in court documents and a journalistic expose, catastrophically fail in a crash only 0.1 MPH over the tested 30 MPH sled test. This isn't an apples to oranges comparision either, as we know that Weight X Speed = Restraining Force. So the extra weight that Britax allows will in turn generate MUCH more restraining force than that generated by a measly 0.1 MPH over NHTSA's standard 30 MPH testing speed.

So yes. Even though I may not have all of the exact numbers from Britax's sled tests, I can absolutely deduce from both statements by Britax engineers, as well as the laws of physics, that Britax seats can handle more restraining forces than that of at least one other seat out there. I then make my Tough Choice as a parent. I know what my own parental choice was, and why I made that choice. It is up to each individual parent and/or caregiver to do their due diligence and research before making their own Tough Choice.

Wineaux said:

They have stated that they have no problems, and in fact designed the seats to handle a couple of pounds over the stated weight limit of their seats. They did this because they wanted to give parents time to purchase a new seat once their child hit the printed weight limit. So Britax seats are safe, as confirmed by the manufacturer, for a couple of pounds over their limit.

We have another, more well known car seat manufacturer whose seats, as shown in court documents and a journalistic expose, catastrophically fail in a crash only 0.1 MPH over the tested 30 MPH sled test. This isn't an apples to oranges comparision either, as we know that Weight X Speed = Restraining Force. So the extra weight that Britax allows will in turn generate MUCH more restraining force than that generated by a measly 0.1 MPH over NHTSA's standard 30 MPH testing speed.

So yes. Even though I may not have all of the exact numbers from Britax's sled tests, I can absolutely deduce from both statements by Britax engineers, as well as the laws of physics, that Britax seats can handle more restraining forces than that of at least one other seat out there. I then make my Tough Choice as a parent. I know what my own parental choice was, and why I made that choice. It is up to each individual parent and/or caregiver to do their due diligence and research before making their own Tough Choice.

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thank you! thats exactly how i feel. and really...for me, the extra $$ isn't that big of a deal when it comes to car seats (it woudl be a big deal if we were talking about another consumer product but for car seats and cars, this is how i feel..i don't need the federal govt. to confirm what i believe to be increased safety from certain car seats and certain cars...and yes, i said "believe"...i guess it is taken on faith that i believe this but ppl believe in stranger things! lol!).

We have another, more well known car seat manufacturer whose seats, as shown in court documents and a journalistic expose, catastrophically fail in a crash only 0.1 MPH over the tested 30 MPH sled test. This isn't an apples to oranges comparision either, as we know that Weight X Speed = Restraining Force. So the extra weight that Britax allows will in turn generate MUCH more restraining force than that generated by a measly 0.1 MPH over NHTSA's standard 30 MPH testing speed.

So yes. Even though I may not have all of the exact numbers from Britax's sled tests, I can absolutely deduce from both statements by Britax engineers, as well as the laws of physics, that Britax seats can handle more restraining forces than that of at least one other seat out there. I then make my Tough Choice as a parent. I know what my own parental choice was, and why I made that choice. It is up to each individual parent and/or caregiver to do their due diligence and research before making their own Tough Choice.

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Yep. And if you can't trust a company to voluntarily pull seats that they KNOW are dangerous and have been responsible for injury and/or death, it doesn't really matter if their subsequent products are fantastic. As far as we know, Britax seats have not been responsible for the injury or death of any children and they are VERY proactive in issuing recalls and fixes to minor issues. The same cannot be said for some other very popular manufacturers.

The Nauti vs. Frontier issue is a bit harder, because Graco has a good track record (well, better than Evenflo and Dorel, I don't know if they've NEVER had any issues that were not fixed until they were forced to pull seats from the shelves), and I think the Nautilus is a very nice seat. I don't have DD's Frontier yet, so I can't compare the two, quality-wise, but I am more confident in Britax's testing, overall. And I agree with the RA vs. CS- there is no comparison between those 2 seats. The quality of materials and obvious engineering that has gone into the RA speaks for itself. In comparing the EFTA to the higher-weight Britax convertibles, I always tell people that the EFTA has lots of great features, but they might want to weigh the company's ethics before trusting Evenflo with their child's life- just in case it turns out to be another On My Way situation.

This is from the Safety Belt Safe Technical Encyclopedia, written by a crash testing expert at one of the top facilities (UMTRI) in the USA:

http://www.carseat.org/Technical/tech_update.htm#heightweight

Child restraint systems are engineered with a margin of safety, and they are tested under very severe conditions. It is therefore not necessary to move children out of their CR the moment they exceed either the weight specified or the recommended head or shoulder height. The concern is not that the harness or shell will break, but that, at some point beyond the limits, the CR will not provide optimal protection. The same applies to turning a convertible from rear- to forward-facing. However, with so many choices available today, it is a good idea to plan ahead for the next CR or belt system in time to get and install the best product for the child. This may involve installing a top tether anchorage or retrofitting the seat position with a shoulder belt.

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I wouldn't advise anyone to exceed the limits set in the owner's manual. That said, I personally have a great deal of confidence in Britax seats, having seen their crash test facility in action a couple times and having generally been very impressed with their management over the years. Companies like Britax and Safeguard really set the standards for others to match, in my opinion. Whether or not it's worth the extra money for any additional safety benefit, I don't think anyone can say with absolute certainty. I'm currently using restraints from Clek and Jane and have also used models from most other manufacturers without reservation in the past.

ZephyrBlue said:

Yep. And if you can't trust a company to voluntarily pull seats that they KNOW are dangerous and have been responsible for injury and/or death, it doesn't really matter if their subsequent products are fantastic. As far as we know, Britax seats have not been responsible for the injury or death of any children and they are VERY proactive in issuing recalls and fixes to minor issues. The same cannot be said for some other very popular manufacturers.

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My opinion, FWIW, is that if you go back far enough in any company's history there are skeletons in the closet. It's not a matter of whether or not they exist, it's a matter of how well they're hidden.

I do trust Britax to put seats on the market that pass standards, however, I do find it interesting that a seat wasn't marketed in Canada (the Companion,) because it didn't exceed CMVSS standards enough for their liking, (barely met them is what I've been told,) yet is sold in the US. :shrug-shoulders:

History can say a lot about a company, but it can't say everything. Management changes, policies change, all sorts of things change in every single company that is out there. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water because of actions taken over a decade ago. :twocents:

My opinion, FWIW, is that if you go back far enough in any company's history there are skeletons in the closet. It's not a matter of whether or not they exist, it's a matter of how well they're hidden.

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I agree with you Trudy. The day that I have proof that Britax knowingly sold a single seat that they knew was putting a child at risk for serious injury/death, like Evenflo and Dorel did, I will absolutely concede that they are not any better. AFAIK, that hasn't happened yet.

If anyone has any info about Britax (or Sunshine Kids, or Recaro, or Compass/The First Years, or Graco) selling seats that they knew were dangerous, simply because "they sell", I would appreciate having that information as a parent and a consumer.

All companies have recalls and glitches with their products. But it's how they handle those issues that is important. Continuing to market a product that has already killed/seriously injured a child is heinous, IMO. To my knowledge, Britax has never done that. Both Evenflo and Dorel have. So to me, comparing a Scenera and Roundabout is ridiculous. Why on earth would you choose to put your child's life in the hands of a company that would just as soon sell you a seat with notches in the shell that have been proven to cause brain damage to save $.24 per seat? And when we trust a car seat to protect our kids, we are ultimately trusting the company behind that seat.

We now own and have installed a GN and a Frontier (Frontier in my vehicle, GN in dh's) and after using them both, my husband and I definitely prefer the Frontier (he would like to get one for his vehicle too). It is a wider seat in terms of room for my dd to sit. She would be very comfy for long trips and the GN just doesn't seem as comfy.

The Frontier just seems to have more protection when she is sitting in it...more areas of SIP that protrude further and more solid seat. The other biggest thing is the harness...I am MUCH more comfortable with the harness on the Frontier than the Graco (dh and I just don't like the Graco buckle).

With that being said though I don't think that is the correct answer for everyone (the Frontier). While I love the frontier and my mother would spend anything I ask on a seat for dd...they remove the seat and need to reinstall it often and even though I can do that with the Frontier with ease...I think they would struggle. So...I'd rather have a seat for them that they can install correctly...than one that I believe has a few more features safety and otherwise that I like. (Does that make sense?). Just my two cents...

ZephyrBlue said:

Why on earth would you choose to put your child's life in the hands of a company that would just as soon sell you a seat with notches in the shell that have been proven to cause brain damage to save $.24 per seat? And when we trust a car seat to protect our kids, we are ultimately trusting the company behind that seat.

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:yeahthat:

Albeit, I'd rather see the seat installed correctly 100% of the time. So if someone is not able to do that with anything other than a Dorel/Evenflo seat, then I'd grudgingly live with it. Any correctly installed seat that isn't expired or missing pieces is better than an incorrectly installed seat...

We've tried a Frontier and frankly I didn't like it. I found the install with either belt path really annoying, and it hung out over the seat edge. DS had practically no leg room. I don't think it's a horrible choice or anything, but if my choices were between the Frontier and the Nautilus, I'd certainly choose the Nautilus. I'm not usually a huge Graco fan--I usually love Britax seats--but it does feel like they got it right this time with the Nautilus.

I did end up buying a safeguard and I really debated whether to keep it or not because I didn't really know if it was worth twice the cost. I decided to keep it based on EPS foam on the whole seat (not just the headrest), the amazingly easy LATCH install and easy seatbelt install, the fact that his head doesn't flop forward when he falls asleep like it does in the Nautilus, and also cover can be removed without uninstalling the seat. And, while without crash test results we don't KNOW any seat is safer than any other, I wanted the seat in my car (the one he rides in 95% of the time) to be from a company like Britax or Safeguard--made in the USA, obviously highly tested, etc. That's a personal preference and not a choice based on any statistics, of course. I did buy a Nautilus to use in DH's car and I'm totally comfortable with that. I will buy another for DS to use in my parents' car after he ekes out his last 1/2" in the Wizard they have.

So all that is my very longwinded way of saying why I paid twice as much. If we hadn't gotten our economic stimulus tax return recently, we wouldn't have been able to afford the Safeguard, and I'd have no issue whatsoever with using the Nautilus as a primary seat. :twocents:

Albeit, I'd rather see the seat installed correctly 100% of the time. So if someone is not able to do that with anything other than a Dorel/Evenflo seat, then I'd grudgingly live with it. Any correctly installed seat that isn't expired or missing pieces is better than an incorrectly installed seat...

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Right. I think this goes without saying- a properly installed seat is always going to be safer than an improperly installed one. But if all other things are equal (neither seat is expired, both are installed and used properly, etc), comparing, say, a Scenera and Roundabout in terms of confidence in the company to protect a child, is ridiculous.