I called 911 yesterday.....

this may get long but worth the read trust me!!

Yesterday a friend and I went to old Navy. She was driving my car and we parked and I looked over my right shoulder and saw a mini van two cars over. I was looking cause it looked like I saw a car seat but I could SWEAR I saw a man in the back HOLDING a child. So I was looking and sure enough the dad was sitting in the back holding a child. By the looks of the head through the tinted windows the child looked to be the same age as Cooper.
So the woman went to get into her van and I glared at her and she looked at me. I made it VERY obvious that I was watching her the whole time. I even stopped a few times to check it out. So she goes to leave the parking lot and she rolled down her window and said, yes do you have a problem?
This is where the FUN starts!
I said, "why isn't your child in a car seat?"
She said, "yes she has a car seat" (communication barrier second language was english but she understood my words and spoke fine.
Me: " Well if she has a carseat why isn't she in it?"
Her: "She has a very high fever and is not feeling well"
Me: "So cause she has a high fever you are gonna kill her by driving without her in the car seat"
Her: "what does it matter to you"
Me: "It matters to me cause you are putting a CHILD's life at risk"
her: "well who are you to say something? Don't worry about what we do."
Me: "Well I am worried cause you are killing your child"
Her: "There is nothign you can do about it"
Me: "Oh don't worry, I have my contacts and my ways."

then she rolled up the window. (I was SHAKING I was SO MAD!!) Then I stood there and watched every move she made. Made mental notes about what the vehicle looked like and then watched it leave to get a liscence plate number. My friend had gone into Old Navy so I could "do my thing" (as she put it) So as the lady drove away I got the liscence plate. There was no reason for me to follow her cause I didn't have a phone. So I walk over to old navy and my friend sees me out the window. I made the sign for phone. I walked in the door and she handed me her phone.
Then I walked out and dialed 911 promtly. I said to the lady on the phone, well you will have to guide me cause I don't know if this is an emergency or not. I told her I just saw someone driving with their child on their lap. Said where I was. She said, oh yeah that is an emergency. Patched me through to the local police. When the distpatch picked up I was like "I have to rattle something off so can you write it down." You can tell I shocked her but she said go ahead. I rattled off the liscence plate number and she took my name for THEIR records and the stupid woman in the van won't know. She said there is a car near by so she would pass on the info.
I am not sure if they did anything or not but I feel somewhat better knowing that they have a liscense (sp?) plate number and I HOPE they do something. Even call the STUPID woman. The 911 lady told me I did the right thing.
I really wish I had a cell phone.
What the heck was teh woman doing out SHOPPING with her child if she had a high fever. Geez......I don't get some people.
Thanks for reading. I am shaking now just remembering it all!!!

Wow I hope they pulled her over! Good for you for calling 911!

next time, don't engage, just call. But you did the right thing!

Good for you. I wish I had a cell phone sometimes too, but I don't want another bill

I was thinking I shouldn't engage but I wasn't afraid of her. If anything it would more be the husband who I would be afraid of but he was holding the little girl. I was so mad!!!

melniemi said:

Good for you. I wish I had a cell phone sometimes too, but I don't want another bill

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me too. That is why we don't have one anymore

melniemi said:

Good for you. I wish I had a cell phone sometimes too, but I don't want another bill

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oh and Cooper saw your daughter in your siggy and he pointed and said "ahh baby!" then wanted up to see her better. LOL

You definately did the right thing! :thumbsup: I hope she did get pulled over as well as fined.

skaterbabscpst said:

next time, don't engage, just call. But you did the right thing!

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:yeahthat:

Good for you, but I totally agree with Rebekah, don't engage next time. Even though it makes sense that maybe you can convince someone to your way of thinking, convince them to buckle up then and there, it doesn't usually work that way. And in today's times, you just don't know who's hopped up on meth, who's mentally ill, who's packing a gun...I may be paranoid, but I don't want to be that "rare" case on the news, KWIM? I hear of road rage/arguments that end up with someone getting beat up or killed.

It's a bit different approaching someone in the carseat aisle, when they are obviously confused and browsing, but when they are in the midst of gross misuse/nonuse I would not approach someone, I'd simply call it in.

And we've had discussions here before about whether or not misuse/nonuse is worth calling 911; some felt it was not. I feel it definitely is. Of course there are levels: I certainly wouldn't call the cops for misuse such as slightly loose straps, strap covers, etc. But a child being held on a lap, heck yes I'd call! That is a true emergency.

By the way, I have called the cops for unrestrained children and for a tiny 18mo-2yo child buckled in just a seatbelt, and I was told both times that it was very appropriate to call 911. So again, good for you for advocating for that child's life! :thumbsup:

In WA we have a hotline to report unrestrained kids. If you have a plate number, they mail the registered owner literature. Right now it isn't a hotline for citations though. I've called 911 before and they have actually forwarded me to this hotline so even 911 won't get them a ticket. I have the hotline on my cell contacts and I've called it SOOO many times. DH just rolls his eyes and waits patiently for me to finish.

Yeah, I don't think lots of states have those hotlines. Oregon doesn't. If we did, that's definitely what I'd call.

Utah has the hotline, but you can also still call 911. I called on my cell phone and followed them until they were pulled over, letting them know I was doing it.

So, I think it's either or... At least that is how it was last time I called 911, which was a couple years ago for an unrestrained child.

You can also get the non emergency number for dispatch. I have it in my cell and don't feel bad about calling.

Misty-Bug said:

....
So the woman went to get into her van and I glared at her and she looked at me. I made it VERY obvious that I was watching her the whole time. I even stopped a few times to check it out. So she goes to leave the parking lot and she rolled down her window and said, yes do you have a problem?
This is where the FUN starts!
I said, "why isn't your child in a car seat?"
She said, "yes she has a car seat" (communication barrier second language was english but she understood my words and spoke fine.
Me: " Well if she has a carseat why isn't she in it?"
Her: "She has a very high fever and is not feeling well"
Me: "So cause she has a high fever you are gonna kill her by driving without her in the car seat"
Her: "what does it matter to you"
Me: "It matters to me cause you are putting a CHILD's life at risk"
her: "well who are you to say something? Don't worry about what we do."
Me: "Well I am worried cause you are killing your child"
Her: "There is nothign you can do about it"
Me: "Oh don't worry, I have my contacts and my ways."

then she rolled up the window. (I was SHAKING I was SO MAD!!) ......

Then I walked out and dialed 911 promtly. I said to the lady on the phone, well you will have to guide me cause I don't know if this is an emergency or not. I told her I just saw someone driving with their child on their lap. Said where I was. She said, oh yeah that is an emergency......
I am not sure if they did anything or not but I feel somewhat better knowing that they have a liscense (sp?) plate number and I HOPE they do something. Even call the STUPID woman. The 911 lady told me I did the right thing.
I really wish I had a cell phone.
What the heck was teh woman doing out SHOPPING with her child if she had a high fever. Geez......I don't get some people.
Thanks for reading. I am shaking now just remembering it all!!!

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I first read this yesterday, and I know my blood pressure went up, unfortunately not on your behalf. After reflection, I guess I will say something, although perhaps I shouldn't.

I know from your previous posts that your heart is in the right place, and that you feel passionately about these issues. However, from the point of view of your 'enemy' (which is how you treated her) in the parking lot, you were a total stranger. Your 'educational' encounter started (according to your account) by you glaring at her meaningfully for an extended time. Then, after SHE opened the conversation, you told her more than once that she was 'killing' her child (obviously inflammatory to any parent, as well as being blatant nonsense from a statistical point of view). She was obviously endangering the child, and breaking the law, but 'killing' makes no sense -- as we know from years of past history, the vast majority of unrestrained people in cars survive the vast majority of trips just fine. People who are less fanatical about carseat use (than we are here) know this too, probably from personal experience. So she was most likely writing you off as an annoying nutcase by this point in the conversation. Finally there's that crowning comment "Oh don't worry, I have my contacts and my ways." That just comes across as bizarre, threatening, and pretty silly. I think you're fortunate she didn't laugh in your face, or cuss you out, at the very least.

I agree, of course, that the child should have been in her carseat. However, your approach was pretty much guaranteed not to get her back into said carseat. In addition, the mom probably was stewing over her unpleasant encounter with you (most likely you weren't the only one shaking after this encounter), so she probably left the scene driving LESS safely than usual, with her child still unrestrained.

I think it would take a real diplomat to achieve a good outcome in an unsolicited parking-lot encounter like this, and not many people have those diplomatic skills. Your story is a pretty good example of what not to do, IMO.

Hopefully the 911 call did lead to a useful outcome. I have mixed feelings about calling 911 for a potential emergency like this, in fears that it might take away resources from an actual ongoing emergency (for example, actual heart attacks, actual burglaries and home invasions, actual people trapped in crashed vehicles, etc.). However, if the dispatcher was fine with it, presumably they prioritize appropriately.

I know (in one of your other recent posts) you said you were briefly considering teaching an informal class on carseat use/safety. If you think education is something you may want to do in the future, I think you really need to re-evaluate your approach to non-compliant parents.

Katrin

skaterbabscpst said:

next time, don't engage, just call. But you did the right thing!

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right. engaging may just make them angry, and that anger may be taken out in other dangerous ways (like driving aggressively, or taking the anger out on the child).

singingpond said:

Your 'educational' encounter started (according to your account) by you glaring at her meaningfully for an extended time. Then, after SHE opened the conversation, you told her more than once that she was 'killing' her child (obviously inflammatory to any parent, as well as being blatant nonsense from a statistical point of view). She was obviously endangering the child, and breaking the law, but 'killing' makes no sense -- as we know from years of past history, the vast majority of unrestrained people in cars survive the vast majority of trips just fine. People who are less fanatical about carseat use (than we are here) know this too, probably from personal experience. So she was most likely writing you off as an annoying nutcase by this point in the conversation. Finally there's that crowning comment "Oh don't worry, I have my contacts and my ways." That just comes across as bizarre, threatening, and pretty silly.

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very well put. you can catch way more flies with honey than with vinegar. :thumbsup: treating non-compliant strangers with disdain and scorn is analogous to calling a child with disabilities "stupid".

southpawboston said:

very well put. you can catch way more flies with honey than with vinegar. :thumbsup: treating non-compliant strangers with disdain and scorn is analogous to calling a child with disabilities "stupid".

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I agree. I know it's often hard to keep temperament in check when you see something so blatantly... not smart... and dangerous. And like Jenny said, you never know what mental state folks are in. But if the goal is to try to convince someone to listen to you, then it's best not back them in a corner, KWIM? It doesn't leave them any room to respond, other than to admit that they were about to have their child killed. Saying something like, "Oh, do you know you need a carseat... do you have one?" etc etc to start a dialogue, if you think it's a safe situation.

FWIW, having lived in a 3rd world country where babies regularly ride in laps and hanging out of windows, and even whole families speed down the highway stacked on a scooter, I can tell you that folks from some other countries don't often understand the importance of carseat use. Many of them never owned a car before moving to the States. It may be an issue of simple education.

Calling 911 was exactly the thing to do, however. :thumbsup:

I'm a little confused :scratcheshead: You saw them when they were parked, right? We often take our kids out of their carseats while we are parked if hubby or I need to run into a store (one of us stays in the car with the kids obviously).

It may not be right, but it is possible they buckled their child back up into their seat before they left the parking lot.

I wouldn't assume the child is unrestrained while they are on the road just because you saw them holding them on their lap in a parking lot. The child was obviously sick and Dad wanted to hold them while Mom was inside shopping

Oh, and after a doctors visit we have stopped to pick up prescriptions, return clothes to store, or gone to the grocery store (child left in car with parent) We live out in the country so anytime we are "in town" we take advantage

ETA: (not to you misty, just in general) You don't have to call 911. Most states have a hotline or non-emergency #. If not then you can program the county's dispatch number into your cell phone. I disagree with calling 911, if there are other phone numbers or ways to reach authorities.

I have to agree with Lovin here. I think most of us would WANT to jump down their throats, but the way you described the story makes it sound like you were a bit nasty. I think telling someone they are "killing" their child is a bit extreme, given the circumstances. Like Melissa said, the car was parked in a parking lot. You assumed the worst and reacted. I do believe that it's unlikely given their attitude that they buckled the child into a seat when they left, but I think situations like this are better left to law enforcement officials. I do think that you did the right thing by calling 911, since you didn't have another number to call. I personally would have called the local police department myself. But confronting a stranger, especially in the manner in which you did, puts you in a very risky situation. Although they may not have looked threatening, you just never know about people.

singingpond said:

I know from your previous posts that your heart is in the right place, and that you feel passionately about these issues. However, from the point of view of your 'enemy' (which is how you treated her) in the parking lot, you were a total stranger. Your 'educational' encounter started (according to your account) by you glaring at her meaningfully for an extended time. Then, after SHE opened the conversation, you told her more than once that she was 'killing' her child (obviously inflammatory to any parent, as well as being blatant nonsense from a statistical point of view). She was obviously endangering the child, and breaking the law, but 'killing' makes no sense -- as we know from years of past history, the vast majority of unrestrained people in cars survive the vast majority of trips just fine. People who are less fanatical about carseat use (than we are here) know this too, probably from personal experience. So she was most likely writing you off as an annoying nutcase by this point in the conversation. Finally there's that crowning comment "Oh don't worry, I have my contacts and my ways." That just comes across as bizarre, threatening, and pretty silly. I think you're fortunate she didn't laugh in your face, or cuss you out, at the very least.
I agree, of course, that the child should have been in her carseat. However, your approach was pretty much guaranteed not to get her back into said carseat. In addition, the mom probably was stewing over her unpleasant encounter with you (most likely you weren't the only one shaking after this encounter), so she probably left the scene driving LESS safely than usual, with her child still unrestrained.
I think it would take a real diplomat to achieve a good outcome in an unsolicited parking-lot encounter like this, and not many people have those diplomatic skills. Your story is a pretty good example of what not to do, IMO.
Hopefully the 911 call did lead to a useful outcome. I have mixed feelings about calling 911 for a potential emergency like this, in fears that it might take away resources from an actual ongoing emergency (for example, actual heart attacks, actual burglaries and home invasions, actual people trapped in crashed vehicles, etc.). However, if the dispatcher was fine with it, presumably they prioritize appropriately.
I know (in one of your other recent posts) you said you were briefly considering teaching an informal class on carseat use/safety. If you think education is something you may want to do in the future, I think you really need to re-evaluate your approach to non-compliant parents.
Katrin

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I couldn't agree more with your post. I know we here are all very CPS concious but let's face it the majority of the rest of the people are not. I think that your reaction was over the top and hostile. Confronting people in public in a hostile manner is never recomended. I have seen people hurt over confrontations like this. You say that you where not scared of her but what if she had whipped out a gun or a knife? Changes the whole situation. Working in the ER I have seen people come in with injuries sustained in a disagrement over things far less than this. :twocents:
I also disagree with calling 911. 911 needs to be saved for true emergencys. 411 or other hotline numbers ore more appropriate in this situation.