brightredmtn
Well-known member
I'm willing to spring for it as an option if it's really worth it. Just wondering if it's really worth it. I live in a very rainy climate if that makes a difference.
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How important is Electronic Stability Control?
- Thread starter brightredmtn
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southpawboston
New member
if you can afford it, go for it. some people will say it's essential, but IMHO, it depends more on the vehicle you are driving. ESC provides a much greater advantage to vehicles that are more prone to losing control and/or rolling over, such as SUVs. small compact cars that have a low rollover risk to begin with will see a smaller advantage to having ESC. if you compare some vehicles on safercars.gov or informedforlife.org, you'll see that most SUVs WITH ESC still have higher rollover risks than small cars WITHOUT.
that said, there will always be SOME advantage to ESC, regardless of vehicle.
that said, there will always be SOME advantage to ESC, regardless of vehicle.
brightredmtn
Well-known member
I'm thinking of a Honda Civic. From what I can tell, ESC or Vehicle Stability Assist as Honda calls it is only available with the V6 si Civic. At the price that car costs and I'm sure fuel economy loss with a V6 I might as well just get the RAV-4 which is what I really wanted in the first place. BUT if roll over will be less common with a Civic w/o ESC over a RAV-4 then that seems like the smarter solution. Or I go with an Accord with ESC...
Thanks off to check out your links!
BTW does your car have ESC? Can I fly you out to help me buy my car? You are everything my DH is not!
Thanks off to check out your links!
BTW does your car have ESC? Can I fly you out to help me buy my car? You are everything my DH is not!
southpawboston
New member
my car doesn't have it. it wasn't even offered as an option until 07. (i got the last of the 06's
). but i'm not going to trade my car for a new version just to get the ESC, even though it would be sort of nice. i don't see that it's worth the depreciation of my current car.do you live somewhere warm and sunny? then yeah, hook me up with a plane ticket!
do they offer the new accord with a 4-cyl? if so, then yeah, great choice. great gas mileage, and they probably offer ESC if not provide it standard. :thumbsup:
lovinwaves
New member
After having it and using it often, I wouldn't buy a car without it. I think it is a must for any young or inexperienced driver :twocents:
It turns on more during the winter(an indicator light on the dash lights up when it is in action) when the roads are snowy and/or icy. I did a test once where I switched it off(switch on dash allows you to disable the feature). HUGE HUGE difference. I can't even begin to tell you how much a difference. I was like "wow. I really like this feature"
Now about rain..This feature has come into play for me during a close call. So definitely you can find it useful in the rain.
ESP, saved my Dad's life he believes. He was involved in an accident recently in his Cadillac XLR convertible. A truck in front of him on a 70mph highway lost a large ladder. The ladder came flying at my Dad and he was unable to HUMANELY make moves that saved him life. He said he actually felt the car "take over" He swears by this feature, and if you ask him about it he will talk your ear off.
There was a special on tv once about this new feature, and I was wow'ed Here are some video clips I think you will enjoy. Show these to Dh to help get him onboard to pay for this additional feature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvEXJVZ64oY
grrr... I can't find the video I was looking for. I will edit this post and add it later once I find it, but the above video will give you an idea of how it can help performance in the rain
It turns on more during the winter(an indicator light on the dash lights up when it is in action) when the roads are snowy and/or icy. I did a test once where I switched it off(switch on dash allows you to disable the feature). HUGE HUGE difference. I can't even begin to tell you how much a difference. I was like "wow. I really like this feature"
Now about rain..This feature has come into play for me during a close call. So definitely you can find it useful in the rain.
ESP, saved my Dad's life he believes. He was involved in an accident recently in his Cadillac XLR convertible. A truck in front of him on a 70mph highway lost a large ladder. The ladder came flying at my Dad and he was unable to HUMANELY make moves that saved him life. He said he actually felt the car "take over"
He swears by this feature, and if you ask him about it he will talk your ear off. There was a special on tv once about this new feature, and I was wow'ed
Here are some video clips I think you will enjoy. Show these to Dh to help get him onboard to pay for this additional feature. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvEXJVZ64oY
grrr... I can't find the video I was looking for. I will edit this post and add it later once I find it, but the above video will give you an idea of how it can help performance in the rain
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mimieliza
New member
oh, yes, it comes with a 4-cyl. From Honda's site:
The LX is the base model, and starts at around $20,000 for the 2008 model. If you're buying soon, I would look for a 2007 (I like the styling better, and maybe you would get a deal).
My mileage in our Accord was always around 30 mpg - I had a 2004 which is the same styling as the 2007.
brightredmtn
Well-known member
From what I can tell only the V6s before 2008 had ESC
http://automobiles.honda.com/certified-used/2007/accord-sedan/safety.aspx
twokidstwodogs
New member
I did a lot of hand-wringing over ESC when I bought my last car. I ended up buying one without it (a Subaru Legacy wagon). Had it been an option, I certainly would have sprung for it, but Subaru has been slow to adopt it. But I didn't have many cars from which to choose that met my criteria (small, sporty station wagon with side curtain airbags for rear passengers). And the Legacy does extremely well in NHTSA rollover tests even without ESC--much better than many SUVs and vans with it, as Southpaw pointed out. Rollovers are where most of the lives are saved with ESC, though it's useful in other circumstances too.
I think it's a must-have for vans, SUVs, and cars being driven primarily by new drivers (agreeing with lovinwaves here), and a really-nice-to-have for everyone else.
I think it's a must-have for vans, SUVs, and cars being driven primarily by new drivers (agreeing with lovinwaves here), and a really-nice-to-have for everyone else.
Those are my requirements for any new vehicle we buy. I even told my mom when she goes to buy a new vehicle those were required in any vehicle she buys from here on out.
Have you looked at the Saturn Aura or the new Chevy Malibu?
The Saturn is about $1400 cheaper with the same gas mileage as the Accord. The new Malibu is going to be cheaper then both the Aura & Accord. It's a new model so no crash data but they are expecting 5 star all around again for it.
The Saturn is about $1400 cheaper with the same gas mileage as the Accord. The new Malibu is going to be cheaper then both the Aura & Accord. It's a new model so no crash data but they are expecting 5 star all around again for it.
brightredmtn
Well-known member
I still have such a stigma against American cars back from when I was growing up and they were so crappy. I know I need to get over that and at least consider them. I'm mainly interested in Honda or Toyota b/c of their reliability and if I'm buying new, how well they hold their value. My payout from insurance for my stolen 4 year old Corolla was only $2000 less than what I paid! I'm leaning toward a Honda over Toyota because their crash test ratings are better.
I really would be a VW person if they didn't consistently score lowest on reliability ratings.
What people forget when they say hold their value is the net cost. You generally pay more for the Toyota/Honda up front so when you trade it in it looks like your vehicle held it's value better then say an American but with the American brand you paid less upfront. All vehicle depericate the same % each year if they are comparable all around (same condition, same options, same mileage, etc...).
As for reliability American vehicle are just as reliable as any other brand on the market. I crack up when I hear this b/c I hear many of you say this then complain when your vehicle is in the shop. But, Here I sit with an '05 Tahoe that has only been in the shop for routine maintance in the 3yrs we have owned it (it has 43K on it).
The vehicles I recommended all got 5 star crash ratings. How is that not just as safe as the Honda Accord when they both got 5 star all around?
I owned an '03 VW Passat. They are the biggest hunk of junk on the road. We owned it for 18mths and it was in the shop 21 times for multiple major problems even some repeatable problems but VW wouldn't buy it back. Heck it spent 1mth in the shop when they couldn't figure out where an oil leak was coming from. They wouldn't even pay my car payment that month. Traded that POS in for my Tahoe and have been happy ever since.
I just wish some would look outside the box and see there are other good products out there then just Honda/Toyota. Not saying they are bad vehicles. I am just for keeping my hard earned money in American pockets and making our dollar stronger.
dimsumdaddy
New member
I definitely want it on any new car I buy.
My friends and I participate in HDPE (High Performance Driving Events) which means driving your car on a race track (like laguna seca). These events are NOT races, but the point is to drive the car without speed limits.
A friend (an experienced driving instructor and event coordinator) was driving a relatively new BMW with VSC ON on a track day when it was raining like crazy. He was driving controlled through the turns. And decided to "try it with VSC off". He flipped VCS and continued to drive at the pace he'd been for several laps... and within the first few turns with VCS off he spun the car off the track.
Bottom line, VCS essentially gives you a higher safety margin, which you will be thankful for in emergency situations. It's not an excuse for hooliganism, but it is does make things a notch safer, provided you don't push harder because of it.
VCS is able to do what we simply can't. When we push the brake pedal, we are applying the brakes evenly (as distributed by the brake proportion system) over all 4 wheels. VCS essentially has individual controls over each wheel, as if we had 4 feet on 4 different brake pedals with 4 brains working together to do optimal braking.
My friends and I participate in HDPE (High Performance Driving Events) which means driving your car on a race track (like laguna seca). These events are NOT races, but the point is to drive the car without speed limits.
A friend (an experienced driving instructor and event coordinator) was driving a relatively new BMW with VSC ON on a track day when it was raining like crazy. He was driving controlled through the turns. And decided to "try it with VSC off". He flipped VCS and continued to drive at the pace he'd been for several laps... and within the first few turns with VCS off he spun the car off the track.
Bottom line, VCS essentially gives you a higher safety margin, which you will be thankful for in emergency situations. It's not an excuse for hooliganism, but it is does make things a notch safer, provided you don't push harder because of it.
VCS is able to do what we simply can't. When we push the brake pedal, we are applying the brakes evenly (as distributed by the brake proportion system) over all 4 wheels. VCS essentially has individual controls over each wheel, as if we had 4 feet on 4 different brake pedals with 4 brains working together to do optimal braking.
strollerfreak
Senior Community Member
Now I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum...I had ESC in the Mountaineer that I drove last year and I *HATED* it with a hot fiery passion. I turned it off every chance I could when it was wet or snowy out.
BUT....I also drive a 2wd rear-wheel drive vehicle and have for YEARS so I'm used to that and how to safely correct for it in the rain/snow/etc. Since I'm from Michigan that's important.
I hate driving front wheel drive vehicles.
BUT....I also drive a 2wd rear-wheel drive vehicle and have for YEARS so I'm used to that and how to safely correct for it in the rain/snow/etc. Since I'm from Michigan that's important.
I hate driving front wheel drive vehicles.
southpawboston
New member
see, that brings up a good point. ESC is not always implemented equally well in different cars. in some cars, ESC is overly intrusive, and tries to correct for *intended* driver input. in other cars, ESC is very unobtrusive, and only kicks in when you really need it. my boss drives a BMW 325xi, and her ESC drives her nuts. she shuts it off every time she gets in the car. i've been talking with some colleagues at work, and with the three snow storms and 17-20" of cumulative snow we've gotten in the past week, i've heard a lot of stories of how ESC just doesn't know how to cope with snow and slush, and is constantly trying to negate driver input (like when you intentionally *want* your tires to spin to get you through a snow pile, for example).
i think that ESC can be a very good thing, not only for tall vans and SUVs, but also for saving your butt during emergency avoidance maneuvers in regular cars, where a novice driver may lose control of the car. but i also suspect that it can have a negative impact on motorists who feel emboldened by the technology, who subconsciously may drive a bit more recklessly, feeling a false sense of security-- ESC "will take care of me".
strollerfreak
Senior Community Member
SPB I do agree...it's implemented differently in every vehicle and it definitely can be (and is) a good thing for certain drivers.
On the other hand one could also argue that some drivers with 4x4 drive more recklessly because of it as well thinking that it will "save" them in adverse weather which is not the true intention of having 4-wheel drive.
The one vehicle that I did have 4-wheel drive in I only used it 3 times.....to pull other vehicles out of ditches in the snow. I never used it, and vowed never to buy a new vehicle with it...beggars can't be choosers when it comes to used though. :twocents:
On the other hand one could also argue that some drivers with 4x4 drive more recklessly because of it as well thinking that it will "save" them in adverse weather which is not the true intention of having 4-wheel drive.
The one vehicle that I did have 4-wheel drive in I only used it 3 times.....to pull other vehicles out of ditches in the snow. I never used it, and vowed never to buy a new vehicle with it...beggars can't be choosers when it comes to used though. :twocents:
southpawboston
New member
i *have* argued this point many times, and my own visual statistics from driving in snow storms tell me this is exactly the case.
I don't live in a snow state but when we get bad weather here it's ice and black ice at that. I know from past experiances that front wheel drive vehicles tended to do better in these conditions then any 4x4 (I own a 4x4). Needless to say when we have this kind of weather I stay off the roads. Not because I can't drive in it as I have lived here my whole life it's the west coast transplants we have here that have never seen ice and drive like idiots.
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