Becoming a tech and liability concerns

Elizasmom · Nov 16, 2007

I am taking a tech class starting on December 8th. I'm really excited about it, but also a little nervous. When I install my seats and the seats of friends, I take a long, long time. I could do it in 5 minutes, but I tend to want to check and recheck everything just to be sure. It brings out my OCD side. The idea of volunteering at a seat check where people are waiting and feeling rushed makes me kinda nervous. I would want to read the manuals (for car and seat) and feel 100% sure. I don't want to rush any of that, but might feel that I have to. I swear I'd have nightmares if I suddenly remembered that I'd forgotten to attach the tether or something and the family is long gone.

I think I would prefer to mostly do checks by appointment on my own time. That way I'd be able to read the manual beforehand and take my time. However, I am concerned about liability in that sort of situation. I've heard something about AAA offering insurance. Does anyone have that coverage? Do you think it's a good idea or are my concerns overblown? Obviously, I would never knowingly make a mistake, but I am human. There is also the enormous guilt factor if anything ever happened to a child in a seat I checked.

crunchierthanthou · Nov 16, 2007

They'll cover that in the course. Basically, it comes down to making sure you read the manuals, document everything and the parent is the last one to install the seat.

mykidsmylife · Nov 17, 2007

I feel the same way. I taking my class Dec 5. But I will just have to be extra careful and remeber it really isnt that much different then the other 15 car seats I have installed for friends.

azgirl71 · Nov 17, 2007

I have personal liability insurance through www.hpso.com under healthcare educator with a CPST underwriter. It is very resonable. You can also get is through your homeowners but it is about $1500 a year. HPSO is about $80 a year.

crunchierthanthou · Nov 17, 2007

myboysmylife said:
I feel the same way. I taking my class Dec 5. But I will just have to be extra careful and remeber it really isnt that much different then the other 15 car seats I have installed for friends.

No, the liability is different. You are no longer just a concerned citizen, but presenting yourself as a trained professional.

azgirl71 · Nov 17, 2007

What Chrunchy said is very true. You need to make sure you document everything. With the parent or caregiver being the last to touch the seat this releases a lot of liability. If you do a SK event you will be covered by thier insurance.

Victorious4 · Nov 17, 2007

crunchierthanthou said:
No, the liability is different. You are no longer just a concerned citizen, but presenting yourself as a trained professional.

:yeahthat: We got very detailed seatcheck forms with liability waiver at our class, but it seems some don't: the CPSPList is a good place to get more info, too -- hopefully they'll discuss that resource as well....

azgirl71 said:
I have personal liability insurance through www.hpso.com under healthcare educator with a CPST underwriter. It is very resonable. You can also get is through your homeowners but it is about $1500 a year. HPSO is about $80 a year.

Love HPSO! As a college student, my fee is only $20/year for $3M coverage

:thumbsup: (varies by state)

Elizasmom · Nov 17, 2007

That's interesting. The 2x we had seats installed with a tech, the tech did the installing and we were not the last ones to touch the seat. How in the world can you read the manuals and teach the parents to install in the few rushed minutes you would have at an event?

mykidsmylife · Nov 17, 2007

WoW! I never realized all this... hmmmm... So when i do do install I should make sure the parents install the seat last?

wendytthomas · Nov 17, 2007

I don't have insurance. When I called HPSO to get a quote they told me that since I don't accept payment for my time and services I'm not a professional. I also (now) document everything and the parent is the last to touch the seat. Unless like the last car I checked they did such a fantastic job that I know they know what they're doing. They had a Marathon too reclined FFing and so I just undid it really quick and put it and the seat more upright. That seat had been in solidly, the dad who installed the seat had very obviously read the manual and knew his stuff. So I just did that for them. Otherwise the parent is the last to touch the seat (oh, I also make an exception for a very pregnant woman).

Also, as you do this you won't need to read the manual on every seat. You won't believe how many Snugrides you see. You'll be able to quote the manual in your sleep, practically. LOL Plus most seats are very similar. You don't need to read the manual for the Marathon, then the Boulevard, then the Decathalon. They're so similar. Britax has LATCH a certain way, a seatbelt a certain way. You'll see a lot of the same seats in your area. When I'm doing private checks I see a lot of Britaxes. When I work a public check I see a lot of three in one seats. You get to know them and their quirks.

Just make sure you don't accept payment (I've had one lady give me gas and lunch money when I drove about 1.5 hours each way to spend two hours with her sister and sister in law, and then a quicker check for a friend's seats. I had another lady stuff $10 for lunch literally into my pocket). If someone asks to pay me I tell them to make a donation to SafeKids. In fact the $10 I got "for lunch" I turned around and donated. Just to be on the safe side. To accept payment makes you a professional. And therefore would require insurance. Have the parents fill out the paperwork, make sure you fill out your paperwork. Document each seat and each kid (if I see more than one kid at a private check I simply write on the back for each seat, rather than fill out three forms), have the parent sign, and have them install it so they leave with their installation. With that, even if something does come up it's very unlikely you'll have a problem. The friend's seat that I traveled to check that I mentioned, he was a lawyer. I mentioned the paperwork and insurance to him and he agreed that the system I have would make it difficult for someone to sue me.

Wendy

Elizasmom · Nov 17, 2007

A while back, I found a newsletter online that listed other options. I believe AAA was one of them, and I think it was even cheaper. Now I can't find this info anywhere. Can anyone help?

NatenMaddiesMommy · Nov 17, 2007

wendytthomas said:
I don't have insurance. When I called HPSO to get a quote they told me that since I don't accept payment for my time and services I'm not a professional.

That's interesting because they never told me that. They put me the retired/part-time since I don't do it as part of a my job (I'm a SAHM) and I don't receive payment for it. So it was only $45/year. But they told me that if do start receiving compensation for it or start doing it as part of a job then I would need to up my policy and pay the full $90/year.

I have the same health educator policy with a CPST rider that some of the folks on this board do.

An Aurora · Nov 17, 2007

They never even mentioned insurance at my tech class. When I got back to Washington and talked to my local Safe Kids leader, he said that Washington has a good samaritan law that covers us. Does anyone know if that is the truth?

Melizerd · Nov 17, 2007

Many states have good Samaritan laws. The law covers you as long as it is an area you have reasonable knowledge on (example you're a CPST and it's a car seat installation, or your a doctor and you perform emergency tracheotomy with a pen) I'm not a doctor so I can't do the pen thing, I wouldn't be covered but even without being a certified tech I bet most of us here would have more then reasonable knowledge of a carseat installation.

Elizasmom · Nov 19, 2007

My reading of the Good Samaritan law in Virginia is that it applies to emergency, life-or-death situations (as the doctor using a pen example illustrates). It seems a stretch to apply it to installing a car seat (may be life-or-death, but not an emergency). I wish it applied, I think it should, but it doesn’t seem like it would.

joolsplus3 · Nov 19, 2007

AAA stopped insuring us like 5 years ago

. That's why we turn to HPSO for coverage (or only work with SK, they cover you).
The reason to always have the parent install the seat is so that they have NO way of saying, 'well, you put it in wrong and our kid died'... plus, of course, we want parents to come away competent, what help is it to install their seats for them and leave them helpless in the future, right?

(there are some exceptions, and if you document everything, they have less leverage in a lawsuit, especially if you make them at least help, or tell them *everything* you are doing and why you are doing it).

azgirl71 · Nov 19, 2007

myboysmylife said:
WoW! I never realized all this... hmmmm... So when i do do install I should make sure the parents install the seat last?

Under the New Ciriculum that is what is taught. They stress more educating the caregiver

papooses said:
Love HPSO! As a college student, my fee is only $20/year for $3M coverage :thumbsup: (varies by state)

I think it is a very fair rate. To bad I am not a college student, so I could take the discount.

NatenMaddiesMommy said:
That's interesting because they never told me that. They put me the retired/part-time since I don't do it as part of a my job (I'm a SAHM) and I don't receive payment for it. So it was only $45/year. But they told me that if do start receiving compensation for it or start doing it as part of a job then I would need to up my policy and pay the full $90/year.

I have the same health educator policy with a CPST rider that some of the folks on this board do.

You are lucky they did that

. They told me that I must be a fulltime employee, but it did not have to be CPST related. I used our racecar since it is a business.

wendytthomas said:
I don't have insurance. When I called HPSO to get a quote they told me that since I don't accept payment for my time and services I'm not a professional. I also (now) document everything and the parent is the last to touch the seat. Unless like the last car I checked they did such a fantastic job that I know they know what they're doing. They had a Marathon too reclined FFing and so I just undid it really quick and put it and the seat more upright. That seat had been in solidly, the dad who installed the seat had very obviously read the manual and knew his stuff. So I just did that for them. Otherwise the parent is the last to touch the seat (oh, I also make an exception for a very pregnant woman).

Also, as you do this you won't need to read the manual on every seat. You won't believe how many Snugrides you see. You'll be able to quote the manual in your sleep, practically. LOL Plus most seats are very similar. You don't need to read the manual for the Marathon, then the Boulevard, then the Decathalon. They're so similar. Britax has LATCH a certain way, a seatbelt a certain way. You'll see a lot of the same seats in your area. When I'm doing private checks I see a lot of Britaxes. When I work a public check I see a lot of three in one seats. You get to know them and their quirks.

Just make sure you don't accept payment (I've had one lady give me gas and lunch money when I drove about 1.5 hours each way to spend two hours with her sister and sister in law, and then a quicker check for a friend's seats. I had another lady stuff $10 for lunch literally into my pocket). If someone asks to pay me I tell them to make a donation to SafeKids. In fact the $10 I got "for lunch" I turned around and donated. Just to be on the safe side. To accept payment makes you a professional. And therefore would require insurance. Have the parents fill out the paperwork, make sure you fill out your paperwork. Document each seat and each kid (if I see more than one kid at a private check I simply write on the back for each seat, rather than fill out three forms), have the parent sign, and have them install it so they leave with their installation. With that, even if something does come up it's very unlikely you'll have a problem. The friend's seat that I traveled to check that I mentioned, he was a lawyer. I mentioned the paperwork and insurance to him and he agreed that the system I have would make it difficult for someone to sue me.

Wendy

:yeahthat: Keep very good records!!! They told me no insurance unless I was employed as well. I used our race car, but could change it to Safely Secure Infants and Children now if I wanted too since I registered it as a business. I have to take donations to help fund seats since we do not have a SK chapter here. Out county is too spread out for me to start one

. They would let me, I just would not be able to do it.

Momto2BabyGirls said:
They never even mentioned insurance at my tech class. When I got back to Washington and talked to my local Safe Kids leader, he said that Washington has a good samaritan law that covers us. Does anyone know if that is the truth?

According to my instuctors Good Samaritan laws are iffy on being covered. There are loopholes to deny coverage as well as loophole to approve coverage

If you do a SK event you fall under thier insurance. If you have a job such as cop/firefighter that you are a tech thier insurance covers you (at least here it does) for thier events or private checks on thier property. If you document EVERY little thing you should be fine. If a parent says they don't agree with you document it! If a caregiver says you are great document it! If a parent insists thier child be in the front seat, but thier are other options available tell them why it is not safe and document it. You can refuse to install to. One of my instructors had this one....a lady wanted he baby to ride in the front passesnger seat in a Snug Ride for 90 miles because she was moving and did not want to make 2 trips. He vehicle was already packed to the roof. They told her it was not recommended and they would not do it. She said she would do it herself, so they told her if she signed a waiver stating she was told they could not do this she would install it for the trip. She refused and they did not install. The still documented everything even though they did not install, so if she tried to come back and say anything different then they had the paperwork to back them up. SHe did sign thier documentation before she left.

skaterbabs · Nov 19, 2007

In VA you're pretty much OK if the parent touches the seat last, you DOCUMENT *everything*, and you accept no money.

You can get free forms from the health department, they suck but they're free.

Becoming a tech and liability concerns

Elizasmom

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crunchierthanthou

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mykidsmylife

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azgirl71

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crunchierthanthou

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azgirl71

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Victorious4

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Elizasmom

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mykidsmylife

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wendytthomas

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Elizasmom

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NatenMaddiesMommy

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An Aurora

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Melizerd

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Elizasmom

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joolsplus3

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