Too much light from vehicles at Night

Please read the article and the links below to understand
the complaint off too much light from approaching cars on Clear nights.

Subject: Too much Light ahead of our vehicles on Major highways


When we meet oncoming vehicles at night on the highway systems in North america

And the weather is Clear, And the oncoming Vehicles have their added Fog lamps and or driving lamps operating in full brillance.

Then We flash them to let them know,That their lights are causing some Glare and visibility problems for us as an approaching driver.

Then their vehicle Lights go from high beam with 4 lamps
lit, ?? To low beam with 4 lamps lit.?? ( clear weather)

What goes through our minds, ??
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(A) Does the Vehicle have an illuminated and word marked on/off switch installed ??
so the driver can shut the additional lights off??

(B) Or are the added lamps Hard wired to the park lamp position of the headlamp switch ??

(C) Or has the driver, Not been able to find the on/off
switch to shut off the fog or driving lamps ??

(D) Or have the Police not used the T.V. media to warn drivers, About Not using fog lamps when the weather is clear

(E) Or are our road safety laws So poorly written, That the enforcement of the laws becomes Impossible

If the vehicle design engineer that has any safety compassion for the eyes of the oncoming motorists they should ensure that his designed vehicle is equipped with the following ROAD SAFETY SMART features

(1) An illuminated and marked on/off switch for the Fog lamps and is close to operators fingertips

(2) and ensure that the fog lamps are only accessable from the Low beam lamp function.

(3) And that the operator has the ability to operate Low beam lighting with the fog lamps

(4) Or have the fog lamps operate alone with Tail lamps park lamps and other marker lamps lit with the fog lamps

(5) And That a drop out feature is provided in the electrical system that allows the fog lamps to be selected on low beam,

(5A) But when the driver switches to high beam,

(5B) And then re selects Low beam

(5C) The drop out feature will not allow the fog lamps to
Be lit again until the driver re selects, the fog lamp switch. For the following safety reasoning

Too many drivers switch the fog lamps on and never shut them off. And the fog lamps are lit all the time even in clear weather.??
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(F) Driving Lamps Insure that an illuminated and word Marked on/off swith is available close to operators fingertips

(F1) Ensure that if unit is equipped with additional Driving lamps, That the additional driving lamps can only be accessed from the high beam lamp operations,

(F2) And have the operator be able to use the high beam operations, with the driving lamps,

(F3) Or be able to use the driving lamps alone with the tail lamps park lamps and other vehicle marker lamps operating

This prevents the driving lamps from operating on low beam.
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Daytime Driving lamps are an accident prevention tools To prevent daylight vehicle frontal collisions.

The Insight electronics. version. see link below

http://www.pacificinsight.com/

Operates the low beam lamps at aprox 60% of their wattage
And these are really nice and do not cause Glare for the uncoming drivers,

Other scary installations. That do nothing for road safety and create Too Much light to approaching drivers
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Some unwary vehicle designers, Install 2 additional bright lamps to operate as Daytime driving lamps. Instead of the insight design

However forget that they sometimes, they allow these bright lamps to operate at night time, and call them
either fog lamps or auxillary driving lamps

This design is really problematic, due to the following reasons

(A) Added lamp glare is projected forward from the vehicle into the eyes of the uncoming drivers.

(B) And in many cases the vehicles are not equipped with a nightime automatic lamps off feature,

(C) And not equipped with an illuminated manual on/off switch so the drivers can shut off the
fog or auxillary driving lamps when the following occurs

(1) The weather is clear

)2) Other drivers blink their lamps to warn us that our additional lamps are lit and causing vision and glare problems.

(3) We want to save fuel energy, and reduce the vehicle operation cost )

If a vehicle is properly equipped with park lamps on the front and High and Low beam operations
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There is little need to allow more light to operate at night time especially when the weather is clear.

And we must ensure we do not allow design engineers to design and offer for sale, Vehicles that contain nightime lighting problems,

Where the vehicle operator cannot employ Common sense ( Lamp switch off ) evasive action to correct ,

WE must have more emphasis placed on the Vehicle design people to stop these poorly designed lighting systems,

That allow additional lamps to operate when not required

And we must give the responsibility for safe vehicle operation BACK to the DRIVERS.

And we need better control of the after market installation of additional driving and Fog lamps,

And have the law enforcement people set proper ENFORCEABLE SAFETY regulations in place that meet common sense and keen vehicle safety management.on our highways systems.

The link below has many good articles on safety and vehicle lighting

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/nhtsa/NHTSA.html

The link below has information or the topic with contacts for how to solve vehicle lighting
Through a third party arbitration process

http://www.camvap.ca/

WE are in the middle of of a case regarding vehicle lighting, See this on the link below

http://www.rafeonline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3035

Happy motoring
BJ

OK....You sure wrote alot

Now I wont even try to waste my day writing anything near what you did so I will do it in a few sentences.

A) All cars have switches to turn fog lights on and off. Fog lights can be used in the parking light mode or in the normal headlight mode. Almost all cars are wired such that the fog light deactivate when selecting the hi-beam mode. If you only use the highbeam for a "flash to pass" the fog light do not shut off.

B) Fog lights are on most American cars are low powered bulbs that are mainly used for aesthetics and are not the source of your bling glare. Even a 55w bulb found in higher end cars fog lamps are not aimed at your eyes. They are aimed at the ground. They are desigend to shine UNDER the fog to illuminate the road. The beam pattern of the fog lights is designed to shine around the front of the vehicle and not more than 20 ft down the road. Blaming these lights for your glare seems very odd since you most likely are not driving "under the fog."

C)The DMV code states that you are NOT allowed to drive only with your fog lights during day or night and requires that he headlights be used at the same time.

C)

too much light from vehicles at night

Thanks for the insight, here in canada we have airheads at the helm of the Safety approval process on new vehicles

New vehicles arrive with additional head lamps that have no means to allow the driver to shut them off

and when fog is present on the highways sytems, adding more light on the front of vehicles produces more glare backwards into the drivers eyes

and produces more glare for the uncoming traffic.

If the existing lights were a good quality lamp there would be no need for more lamps that cannot be shut off by the driver

our road side inspectors look the other way when a vehicle drives up with fog lamps lit in any weather because all the new vehicles arrive with the additional lamps that are hard wired to the headlamp circuit

so that sets the standard as far as being a bad guy and enforcing common sense vehicle safety that calls for fog lamps to be shut off when there is no fog present

and additional driving lamps to be shut off when on low beam

Its a great sales pitch 2 head lamps 2 more lamps tied to the head lamp
circuit and 2 Marker lamps that have a purpose to iluminate the edge of the vehicle should a head lamp burn out.

Many new cars have what are called running lights. That is lights that do not turn off and can not be turned off when the car is on. i personally like this idea, i seen many drivers that do not turn on their headlights as the sun gos down, they dont need them to see, but other drivers need them on too see them.

The only issue i have is SUV's my coupe sits very low and many SUV drivers are complete a**es and ride my butt so their lights are bouncing in from both my side mirror and my rear view mirror and then get angry when i slow down.

In heavy fog the fog lights are very helpful as they shine towards the ground so the road in illuminated better and the light does not bounce back towards the driver.

Are you saying you think cops should pull drivers over for thier headlights being in what is in your opinion an unsafe mode? Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Oh and less lights down mean better fuel consumption. Your alternator powers the lights when the motor is on and it also keeps the battery going so you can start your car so it turns anyway.

Oh and i drive my car with both the low beams and fog lights on all the time b/c i think she looks cool that way. (Designed to be snake eyes with both lit) And i have super bright low beams. I hate ppl who flash their high beams to suggest i have mine on i just flash mine right back and let them know that i *can* go brighter. Oh and i'm an engineering student so expect bright lights to come from any vehicle i ever design i think new cars lights suck (except BMW and the like) and i want to put go bright projector beams on every car i design.

Roadside workers look away b/c they arent stupid enough to stare into oncoming lights. Do you really think they would continue to look if they had lower lights? No, its human nature to not stare into bright lights when we're in the dark.

Maybe you should try a trick they taught me in drivers ed, when a car is coming up to you and you think the lights are too bright avert your eyes to the edge of your side of the road. The road has a strip that 'glows' in the light so you'll know where the edge is and b/c you arent staring into oncoming lights you wont get as affected by it.

Proper aiming may be the biggest problem. Regular headlights should be aimed slightly downward. Even the brightest HID systems should not be a major issue if they illuminate the road and are not aimed up at other drivers.

Foglights should be aimed down and to the side of the road. As they are also less powerful, they should never be a glare issue if used correctly.

I suspect the vast majority of complaints come from HID systems, people who run with their brights on and people who have any lights aimed incorrectly. Not much you can do about it, unless your local law enforcement is able to cite and fine people for it.

too much light on vehicles at night

good points we have daytime driving lamps here in Canada they are designed here and the best one is the model that allows low beam to be lit at half brilliance during the day

However many of the manuf. have gotten on the band wagon and added extra lights and in the daytime they call them either fog lamps or added driving lamps

However the person doing the design left of the ability to shut off the added lamps where as the half brillance low beam DRL design automatically works in the Low beam when the lights are switched to full low beam on the lamp switch

and reverts do DRL within the low beam lamp when the the low beam is switched off

Fog lamps are great but should be used in fog conditions and shut off as common driver courtesy when the fog is not present

Additional driving lamps are also great but should be restricted to high beam

and not used on low beam because thats normally in the city or on narrow winding county roads where we meet other vehicles and need to respect the eyes of uncoming motorists as a matter of accident prevention
More lights create more glare

For years we had larger rectangular series sealed beams 6014 and 6054
series that had the ability to light up the road shoulders and ditch lines

Now we have 4 lights on all the time what for to tick off all the uncomimg drivers

I have 57 years of accident free driving on vehicles from cars up to semi trailers and have past course and experience in accident prevention and
accident investigation and have found there is no greater accident prevention action than drive defensively and respecting the eyes of the oncoming drivers

Poor vehicle design does nothing for accident prevention nor does it respect
other drivers and promote safe driving techiniques

if we do not and cause a collision with the oncomong vehicle we can be involved have a nice day

bj

I dont see how this is poor vehicle design. Drivers need more light options than just off, high, and low. The additional options allow drivers to choose how much and where the light does which makes it easier to see.

I agree with Darren, aiming is a problem. Many manufacturers don't aim the headlights properly (or they change during shipping) We've bought 4 new cars in the past 3 years and all of them have pointed straight forward and out to the sides. Many people dont know how to aim them (or not have the necessary white garage door to do it with) so they just let them be.

If you've had 57 years of driving experience and not one accident you cant really say that bright lights are so much of a hazard we need to revert back to the old ugly rectangular style can you?

You dont use your bright on winding country lanes? What about deer, fallen tree limbs, and sudden sharp corners? Brights illuminet further down the road and both sides of the road allowing you to see these things further in advance and plan ahead for them.

I dont drive with my fogs on to tick off other drivers, if it bothers you look away. I dont see fog lights as an issue since most point downward. If my lights ever cause an accident i might think of turning them off but until then i'm going to keep them on. (but as i still dont see how they can blind other drivers enough to make them veer off the road i doubt i'll ever need to turn them off.)

too much light at night from vehicles

good points, As a retired B.C licensed vehicle inspector I agree with the aiming of all lamps

But with the newer vehicles when we meet vehicles and they blink their lights at us and our headlamps are aimed

This tells us there is eye irritation being experienced in the eyes of the oncoming drivers

I will not drive a vehicle that causes eye complaints to oncoming drivers

But rather have switching that allows me respect for the eyes of the oncoming drivers

That allows me to switch off the fog lamps when there is no fog

and Restrict any added driving lamp operations to high beam

Meeting vehicles on High beam on narrow winding roads requires all drivers to use low beam to respect the vision field of other drivers

On the open road high beam is a must and if driving lamps are available these can be used with high beam only

Have a nice day

bj

Most drivers turn their brights off when they meet oncoming traffic. If there is not traffic coming towards you it is safer to have your brights on and turn them off when someone comes toward you.

Most cars do have the ability to turn off their fog lights. Lots of drivers choose not to turn them off. I feel they make the lines of the road more visible and as i said before they look cool on (many drivers leave them on for this reason ) I still disagree that fog lights pose a danger to oncoming traffic. They point down not up into the eyes of drivers in other cars.

I have lots of people who flash me when i have my lows beams on b/c i do have bright lights, i just flash them back to say that i dont and go on my way. You should try it. I've always considered 'flashing' as something rude to do (unless they are letting me know theres a cop ahead then its a friendly flash!)

Dreaming_of_Speed said:

Most drivers turn their brights off when they meet oncoming traffic. If there is not traffic coming towards you it is safer to have your brights on and turn them off when someone comes toward you.

Most cars do have the ability to turn off their fog lights. Lots of drivers choose not to turn them off. I feel they make the lines of the road more visible and as i said before they look cool on (many drivers leave them on for this reason ) I still disagree that fog lights pose a danger to oncoming traffic. They point down not up into the eyes of drivers in other cars.

I have lots of people who flash me when i have my lows beams on b/c i do have bright lights, i just flash them back to say that i dont and go on my way. You should try it. I've always considered 'flashing' as something rude to do (unless they are letting me know theres a cop ahead then its a friendly flash!)

Click to expand...

Whats wrong with shutting off the fog lamps when there is no fog present ??

is that not a safe drivers action to send respect to the eyes of the oncoming driver Road rage is easily triggered and as a responsible driver we owe other road users our common courtesy to make their drive more comfortable and pleasurable as they should do for us respect is a two way street and leads to highway safety and accident prevention

have a nice weekend

bj

Whats wrong with leaving them on? They are on the lower part of the car and point downward so they dont shine in other drivers eyes.

I could turn them off but as i like them on and they dont pose a threat to other IMO. I've never had an issue with other drivers fog lights and i drive a very very short car.

The ONLY time i have a light problem is when there are large trucks coming towards me and i am eye level with their lights or a large SUV's lights are behind me and the driver is following too closely so they come at me in my mirrors.

In 57 years of driving you've never had an accident caused by other drivers lights and you've never been attacked by a driver what road rage so what makes you think this is such a danger?

I think drivers who flash their brights at other drivers cause more road rage than someones low beam and fog lights being on (maybe a driver with their brights on would cause it but thats not the current issue). I HATE other drivers who flash em while i'm driving its distracting, dangerous, and the temporary flash of very bright light can cause spot to from in the eyes. There have been causes where people have murdered or shot at drivers who flashed thier bright lights, i've never heard of a person being murdered over thier fog lights.

Have you considered seeing an eye doctor? Perhaps you are more sensitive to light now that when you were younger. Before i got my glasses i saw stars around lights (any light not just cars) but now when i where them its just light not a large sparkling circle.

Thread closed for now

Thank you all for the comments on this topic. If you wish to post published studies or other data on the issue to discuss, you may do so in another thread. A number of studies have been conducted about DRLs in particular, and that might provide an interesting tangent as well.

As this thread seems to be mostly one of opinions that have already been pretty thoroughly expressed, I am closing it, at least temporarily.