Which is better: center lap belt w/out tether or outboard shoulder belt w/out tether

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denimmeitai

New member

• Mar 7, 2012

• #1

I'm trying to figure out which is safest. The 3rd row in our Excursion doesn't have top tethers. (Also doesn't have LATCH) I read in another thread that top tethers improved safety around 9-16% while center seating improved it by 30%.

So I'm wondering: would it be better to put my FF'er (Nautilus - still in 5-point harness) in the center with the lap belt or on the side with the shoulder belt? I'll also have RF'er in the 3rd row. Convenience says that it would be easier to have the RF'er in the center position and FF on the side. But, what about safety-wise?

 

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denimmeitai

New member

• Mar 8, 2012

• #2

Someone? Anyone? Please?

 

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EmmaGrace'sMom

New member

• Mar 8, 2012

• #3

Well, tethers and center safety are two different things. A tether reduces head excursion...but center seating does nothing for head excursion, though it does provide slightly more side impact protection which in an Excursion probably won't matter unless you're t-boned by another extremely large vehicle. I would probably do whatever works the best for loading/unloading.

 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob

Staff member

• Mar 8, 2012

• #4

The Nautilus doesn't have a high-up belt path designed to reduce head excursion, like the long belt path on the Frontier. So I'd go for the center if possible. 1. Center is safer in side impacts. 2. Center is ESPECIALLY safer in side impacts when you don't have the added stability of a tether. 3. Generally the center seating position has a gap between seats so in a head-on frontal collision, the risk of head hitting an interior feature due to the increased head excursion is lessened.

 

Pixels

New member

• Mar 8, 2012

• #5

ketchupqueen said:

The Nautilus doesn't have a high-up belt path designed to reduce head excursion, like the long belt path on the Frontier. So I'd go for the center if possible. 1. Center is safer in side impacts. 2. Center is ESPECIALLY safer in side impacts when you don't have the added stability of a tether. 3. Generally the center seating position has a gap between seats so in a head-on frontal collision, the risk of head hitting an interior feature due to the increased head excursion is lessened.

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Source? I've never heard that the tether makes any difference in a side impact.

 

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denimmeitai

New member

• Mar 21, 2012

• #6

Thank you for the replies! I didn't get a message that a response had been posted, so sorry I'm so late getting back to this thread.

Center position isn't going to make a difference as far as hitting the seat in front . . . we have a bench seat in the 2nd row.

I also would be interested in seeing the source for the statement that center is safer when the top tether is not used.

I'm sort of thinking that we put the Nautilus on the side, behind the seat that will permanently be flipped down (so nothing for little heads to run into in the event of a crash), and the RF'er on the opposite side, leaving the center open.

I still have a few months before we HAVE to decide . . .still mulling!

 

An Aurora

Senior Community Member

• Mar 21, 2012

• #7

Does the Excursion allow the seat in the 2nd row to be folded while driving? I know my Explorer manual said to lock the seats in the 2nd row into their upright position when traveling.

 

Pixels

New member

• Mar 21, 2012

• #8

There are a bunch of studies, links, and numbers in http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=1040471.

 

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Syllieann

New member

• Mar 21, 2012

• #9

Did the study you found that said center was 30% safer say if that was in side impacts or all crashes? If we use 30 or even 35% safer for center vs outboard in side impacts but only 25% (estimtes vary but let's go w/ this which I think is high) then overall the center is only 35/4% safer or 8.75% safer while top tether is 9-16% safer. Unless the 30-35% safer for center already corrected for likelihood of different crash scenarios.

 

Pixels

New member

• Mar 21, 2012

• #10

Well to start with, side impacts account for 35% of all fatalities. Frontal impacts are most common, but side impacts (when they happen) have a higher likelihood of death.

"Children seated in the center rear have a 43% lower risk of injury compared with children in a rear outboard position." That is for all crash types, not just side impacts. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/121/5/e1342.full

 

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Syllieann

New member

• Mar 21, 2012

• #11

I did read that one but since the center kids were so much more likely to be rf, I wasn't sure how meaningful it was. Is there any data where it's corrected for cr type? I was wondering if the 30% figure came from a study that was controlled for cr or at least rf/ff. I thought I read fairly recently that the difference wasn't nearly as significant as it was once thought. Sorry for the tangent, OP. I'll exercise my search box and do a s/o if I have more questions.

 

Pixels

New member

• Mar 22, 2012

• #12

"Adjustments included CRS type (rear facing and forward facing), age of the child (by year) and driver (<25 and ≥25 years), the number of other occupants seated in the row with the child (0, 1, or 2), crash severity (intrusion, nondrivable without intrusion, or drivable), and the initial direction of crash impact (frontal, right side, left side, rear, or other/unknown)."

 

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denimmeitai

New member

• Mar 22, 2012

• #13

An Aurora said:

Does the Excursion allow the seat in the 2nd row to be folded while driving? I know my Explorer manual said to lock the seats in the 2nd row into their upright position when traveling.

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Hmmm . . good question. I think I saw that the seat needs to be pushed all the way back, but I don't think it said anything about needing to be in the upright position. I'll check into that.

Syllieann said:

I did read that one but since the center kids were so much more likely to be rf, I wasn't sure how meaningful it was. Is there any data where it's corrected for cr type? I was wondering if the 30% figure came from a study that was controlled for cr or at least rf/ff. I thought I read fairly recently that the difference wasn't nearly as significant as it was once thought. Sorry for the tangent, OP. I'll exercise my search box and do a s/o if I have more questions.

Click to expand...

No worries! It's a good tangent that is useful!

So center is safest. But, I have more children than center seats, so several someones will have to ride outboard. Am I correct in saying that the general consensus is that the FF'er should be in the center, untethered and the RF'er on the side?

 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob

Staff member

• Mar 22, 2012

• #14

If there is no option to install a tether anchor, yes, that is correct. We usually recommend the least protected child (in this case, forward-facing) be in the most protected position (center) when possible.