I was invited here to let you all disabuse me of the thought that harnesses are safer than seatbelts/boosters.
I have read until my eyes crossed trying to find anything saying a harness is not safer than a booster, or that a booster is just as safe as a harness.
Please educate me, because the person who sent me here wasn't inclined to do so. Also, please understand, I am not here to only create strife (which I have been informed this topic does), but on the assumption that most people who visit this site are looking for facts and reliable information because they want their children as safe as possible in a vehicle. I personally prefer to make educated decisions about my children's safety, based on the information available, as do many others, I'm sure.
These are my thoughts/proof of my assertion at this time:
1. It's been said for many years using a harness as long as possible is safest. I first researched this subject in 1999, when I used info found online (can't begin to remember where it came from) to convince my husband we needed a Fisher Price Futura when it came out (Jan/Feb 2000) rather than the Cosco HBB we were using for our 2 year old at the time. (He was more than 40lbs at that point.) I used crash testing video(s) from a carseat website in 2004 to convince him we needed Britax Huskies instead of BPBs for our sons because they were nearing the limit of the Futuras. I realize recommendations can change, however this is the first time I've ever seen someone say it isn't safer to harness longer.
2. I'm not a huge fan of gov't agencies/regulatory agencies/etc that set the regulations for child passenger safety. I feel they seriously drop the ball on it, as evidenced by it taking until 2011 to recommend RF to at least age 2, when it has been proven for years to be safer. That said, for the moment they serve my purpose.
NHTSA says:
SafeKids says:
Transport Canada:
AAP says:
Carseat.org says:
All these agencies seem to agree that we should be using a harness as long as possible. Why do they think that? Obviously CPST courses are teaching that neither is safer than the other, why are they teaching that? (Particularly when SafeKids' website says use the harness as long as possible.) Where did the info come from that a 3 point seatbelt is just as safe as a 5 point harness? Where did the info about head excursion and HIC come from that people now say is the reason for a booster?
I see it said repeatedly there is no data/testing for over 5 on harness vs booster so they are considered to be equally safe. When did that become the mantra and why? (Can someone link me to the testing for under 5? I wasn't able to find that in my searches over the past couple of days either.)
thepeach80 links crash testing comparing harness to booster in this thread from 2006, does anyone know where to find those videos today?
3 CPSTs in this thread from 2008 prefer a 5 point over a booster, though it is stated that there is no testing to prove it. Leads me to believe this information came to a forefront at some point between 2006 and 2008, but when, why, and how?
I get that 6 seems to be the magic age when most think it is OK to go from harness to booster, I understand about maturity, brain development and impulse control for that logic.
Thanks for any input, hopefully this thread will be educational for others besides myself.
ETA: I have a 16 month old, the rest of my children are 12-19. My little guy currently does not have a carseat, he has outgrown his Keyfit30, I absolutely hate the Graco SmartSeat, so it's on its way back to Graco right now, and the Radian XTSL I am praying will fit in at least 2 of my vehicles won't be here until Tuesday. I want this information to make decisions about what seats to use for the little one, particularly if the Radian doesn't fit my vehicles.
I have read until my eyes crossed trying to find anything saying a harness is not safer than a booster, or that a booster is just as safe as a harness.
Please educate me, because the person who sent me here wasn't inclined to do so. Also, please understand, I am not here to only create strife (which I have been informed this topic does), but on the assumption that most people who visit this site are looking for facts and reliable information because they want their children as safe as possible in a vehicle. I personally prefer to make educated decisions about my children's safety, based on the information available, as do many others, I'm sure.
These are my thoughts/proof of my assertion at this time:
1. It's been said for many years using a harness as long as possible is safest. I first researched this subject in 1999, when I used info found online (can't begin to remember where it came from) to convince my husband we needed a Fisher Price Futura when it came out (Jan/Feb 2000) rather than the Cosco HBB we were using for our 2 year old at the time. (He was more than 40lbs at that point.) I used crash testing video(s) from a carseat website in 2004 to convince him we needed Britax Huskies instead of BPBs for our sons because they were nearing the limit of the Futuras. I realize recommendations can change, however this is the first time I've ever seen someone say it isn't safer to harness longer.
2. I'm not a huge fan of gov't agencies/regulatory agencies/etc that set the regulations for child passenger safety. I feel they seriously drop the ball on it, as evidenced by it taking until 2011 to recommend RF to at least age 2, when it has been proven for years to be safer. That said, for the moment they serve my purpose.
NHTSA says:
Recommendations For All Ages
Select a car seat based on your child's age, height, and weight.
Keep your child in the car seat for as long as possible, as long as your child fits the seat's height and weight requirements.
All children under 13 should ride in the back seat. Link
Keep your 4 to 7 year old children in their FORWARD-FACING car seat with a harness until they the top height or weight limit allowed by your car seat's manufacturer. Link
SafeKids says:
Recent American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recommendations (March 2011) urge parents to keep children in a harnessed car seat for as long as possible. Depending on your car seat and child's weight or height, you may be able to keep your child rear-facing longer before adjusting the car seat to face forward. Use the full harness for as long as the seat allows. Link
Use a forward-facing car seat correctly and until the harness no longer fits (convertible or combo seat) in a back seat every time your child rides in a car. Many harnesses today serve kids to 50, 60, 80 or even 100 pounds.
<snip>
If you have a heavier or taller child, find a car seat with a harness that fits larger children. Some seats hold children up to 80 or even 100 pounds.
<snip>
Take the next step to a booster seat when you answer “yes” to any of these questions:
Does your child exceed the car seat’s height or weight limits?
Are your child’s shoulders above the car seat’s top harness slots?
Are the tops of your child’s ears above the top of the car seat? Link
Transport Canada:
It is safest to keep your child in each stage for as long as possible.Link
Forward-facing seats are for older children with stronger back and neck muscles. As long as your child fits within the weight and height ranges of his or her rear-facing seat, it is best to use that seat for as long as possible. Link
AAP says:
All children 2 years or older, or those younger than 2 years who have outgrown the rear-facing weight or height limit for their car safety seat, should use a Forward-Facing Car Safety Seat with a harness for as long as possible, up to the highest weight or height allowed by their car safety seat’s manufacturer.
<snip>
All children 2 years or older, or those younger than 2 years who have outgrown the rear-facing weight or height limit for their car safety seat, should use a Forward-Facing Car Safety Seat with a harness for as long as possible, up to the highest weight or height allowed by their car safety seat’s manufacturer. It is best for children to ride in a seat with a harness as long as possible, at least to 4 years of age. If your child outgrows his seat before reaching 4 years of age, consider using a seat with a harness approved for higher weights and heights.
<snip>
Booster seats are for older children who have outgrown their forward-facing car safety seats. All children whose weight or height is above the forward-facing limit for their car safety seat should use a Belt-Positioning Booster Seat until the vehicle seat belt fits properly, typically when they have reached 4 feet 9 inches in height and are between 8 and 12 years of age. The owner’s manual that comes with your car safety seat will tell you the height and weight limits for the seat. As a general guideline, a child has outgrown his forward-facing seat when any one of the following is true:
He reaches the top weight or height allowed for his seat with a harness. (These limits are listed on the seat and also included in the instruction booklet.)
His shoulders are above the top harness slots.
His ears have reached the top of the seat.
Link
Carseat.org says:
2) Use a seat with an internal harness as long as possible (40-90 lbs). See the list on the other side. Link (this is a PDF file)
All these agencies seem to agree that we should be using a harness as long as possible. Why do they think that? Obviously CPST courses are teaching that neither is safer than the other, why are they teaching that? (Particularly when SafeKids' website says use the harness as long as possible.) Where did the info come from that a 3 point seatbelt is just as safe as a 5 point harness? Where did the info about head excursion and HIC come from that people now say is the reason for a booster?
I see it said repeatedly there is no data/testing for over 5 on harness vs booster so they are considered to be equally safe. When did that become the mantra and why? (Can someone link me to the testing for under 5? I wasn't able to find that in my searches over the past couple of days either.)
thepeach80 links crash testing comparing harness to booster in this thread from 2006, does anyone know where to find those videos today?
3 CPSTs in this thread from 2008 prefer a 5 point over a booster, though it is stated that there is no testing to prove it. Leads me to believe this information came to a forefront at some point between 2006 and 2008, but when, why, and how?
I get that 6 seems to be the magic age when most think it is OK to go from harness to booster, I understand about maturity, brain development and impulse control for that logic.
Thanks for any input, hopefully this thread will be educational for others besides myself.
ETA: I have a 16 month old, the rest of my children are 12-19. My little guy currently does not have a carseat, he has outgrown his Keyfit30, I absolutely hate the Graco SmartSeat, so it's on its way back to Graco right now, and the Radian XTSL I am praying will fit in at least 2 of my vehicles won't be here until Tuesday. I want this information to make decisions about what seats to use for the little one, particularly if the Radian doesn't fit my vehicles.
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