I can't modify my van like I thought I'd be able to

Last summer we bought an '09 Chevy Express (12 passenger/shorter wheelbase). I know a guy who does custom modifications on all sorts of vehicles. He really knows his stuff and I trust him. So we bought the van with plans to have headrests installed in all 10 rear positions. My oldest has nearly outgrown her Pkwy SG, but really still needs a nbb to have the belt fit correctly. So I took the van in to this man to get an estimate on having 10 headrests put in.

He just got back to me today. It's a no-go. He got the "blueprints" of the vehicle from the manufacturer and said that the shoulder belts (in the middle positions of each bench) are now connected to the frame of the bench. To install headrests, he'd need to drill into the top of the frame multiple times, compromising the integrity of the frame that helps support the shoulder belts. He's not comfortable doing that, and neither am I, obviously.

So my dream van is not turning out to be such a beautiful dream anymore.

Now I need to make some decisions. So I'm using all of you to help me think this out.

My oldest has probably at least a few more months left before outgrowing her Pkwy SG. She may pass the 5-step test just fine by then. If that's the case, I won't worry as much unless an adult has to be back there. Then the no-headrest thing really gets to me.

Another thing I'm considering is looking for a used Sprinter. It's always been my TRUE dream van, but it's so dang expensive!!! When we were looking at vans before, I remember looking specifically at '08 Sprinters or newer. I seem to recall there being a good reason for this, but I can't remember what it was. Any ideas?

The older models' prices are a little easier to swallow, but they're still $$. I also like the 12-passenger models better, which I believe are only like '07 or newer, so therefore pricier. I could handle having a 10-passenger, though, if it meant having shoulder belts AND headrests in every position.

The one down-side to the Sprinter (besides the $) is that even if we got the low-roof option (which we VERY MUCh prefer), it still won't fit in our garage. Our current van just barely fits, but even the "short" Sprinter is taller than our Express.

Sorry about the brain dump. I was just really disheartened by the news on the headrests today.

ETA: We've discussed going back to a Sienna or Ody, but we have a camper trailer that we absolutely LOVE and really don't want to get rid of it. We would really like to keep the towing capability. And I HATE SUVs, so that's not an option either.

Is 08 the first year with shoulder belts for all positions? Or TAs?

I hate to be crass, but knowing specifically what your upper limit on price is would help.

I think it might have been the TAs. I know even the older models have shoulder belts.

Our upper limit is the whole issue we're having. DH was ready to spend $30k or so on a massive SUV (until we drove one and he saw how impractical they are), so I think I can at least get that out of him. All the '08 or newer models that we've seen are around $40k. I don't think I can talk him into going that high. (And I don't know if *I* could stomach the car payment on a vehicle of that price.)

This is probably a long shot, but are there different bench seats that would fit in your van (maybe previous model years?) that could have head rests added?

PMed you!

mytwobugs said:

This is probably a long shot, but are there different bench seats that would fit in your van (maybe previous model years?) that could have head rests added?

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It's a good idea....I've thought of that. But the problem is that all the benches that are "swappable" would only work because they don't have shoulder belts in the middle seats (lap belts only). That's why we have the model year we do because it's just recently that they started making them with shoulder belts in all positions.

tl01 said:

PMed you!

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Thank you! Let me talk to DH when he gets home and I'll get back to you.

Chex said:

It's a good idea....I've thought of that. But the problem is that all the benches that are "swappable" would only work because they don't have shoulder belts in the middle seats (lap belts only). That's why we have the model year we do because it's just recently that they started making them with shoulder belts in all positions.

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I assume it's three rear benches, seating four three and three? Right now you have ten rear seating positions, all with shoulder belts, but no head rests. If you swapped benches, you could have head rests for the outboard seats (no point for the center lap-only belts) and use the lap-only for harnessed seats. Swap out one bench, lose one middle shoulder belt but gain two headrests outboard. You could use that center position for a harness seat for a long time, since you will have harnessed kids for quite a while. And keep in mind, there's no reason it has to be all or nothing. You could swap out one or two benches and keep one or two of your current benches.

Actually, with three rear benches and six kids (I believe you've said #6 will be the last), you could swap out all three benches, and all six kids could sit outboard and have a shoulder belt and head rest. There would be no taking extra kids, unless you put one or more of your kids in a harness seat in the middle.

Pixels said:

I assume it's three rear benches, seating four three and three? Right now you have ten rear seating positions, all with shoulder belts, but no head rests. If you swapped benches, you could have head rests for the outboard seats (no point for the center lap-only belts) and use the lap-only for harnessed seats. Swap out one bench, lose one middle shoulder belt but gain two headrests outboard. You could use that center position for a harness seat for a long time, since you will have harnessed kids for quite a while. And keep in mind, there's no reason it has to be all or nothing. You could swap out one or two benches and keep one or two of your current benches.

Actually, with three rear benches and six kids (I believe you've said #6 will be the last), you could swap out all three benches, and all six kids could sit outboard and have a shoulder belt and head rest. There would be no taking extra kids, unless you put one or more of your kids in a harness seat in the middle.

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You're right! I was thinking about it as "all or nothing." Wow! Good idea! I'll talk to DH about that too! That might be the best/cheapest option. Thank you!

Now....where do you go about FINDING an older-model bench to buy?

Chex said:

You're right! I was thinking about it as "all or nothing." Wow! Good idea! I'll talk to DH about that too! That might be the best/cheapest option. Thank you!

Now....where do you go about FINDING an older-model bench to buy?

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You could phone some places that sell used vans. You might find a dealership that's happy to swap benches and be able to sell an older Express with extra shoulder belts. I have an '06 which has one of those all-shoulder benches and the rest with lap belts in the middle.

I'm hoping to start with 4 headrests (outboard of 2 benches) and then hopefully at some point headrests will be mandatory and GM will start making benches with factory headrests.

I did not know this was potentially an option. Ooooooh. This would be so much easier than 6 in a Suburban.

Just had another idea -- what about removing the middle shoulder belt and replacing with a lapbelt on one of your existing benches?

A van mod guy with the skills to add headrests would be more than qualified to add heavy duty tether anchors for those lap only belt positions.

safeinthecar said:

A van mod guy with the skills to add headrests would be more than qualified to add heavy duty tether anchors for those lap only belt positions.

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The lap belts on the 3-person benches will have TAs. It's only the 4-person bench that doesn't have TAs.

Keeanh said:

The lap belts on the 3-person benches will have TAs. It's only the 4-person bench that doesn't have TAs.

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Okay, that's good, but HDTAs are good for up to 165# and can be used with an 86-y harness.

safeinthecar said:

Okay, that's good, but HDTAs are good for up to 165# and can be used with an 86-y harness.

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Sorry :doh: I thought of that later. You're talking about making use of the lap belts after harnessed seats are outgrown .

safeinthecar said:

A van mod guy with the skills to add headrests would be more than qualified to add heavy duty tether anchors for those lap only belt positions.

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He would also be more than qualified to retrofit your van with shoulder belts that anchor to the roof if you choose to switch out your benches.

Squeaky McMurdo said:

He would also be more than qualified to retrofit your van with shoulder belts that anchor to the roof if you choose to switch out your benches.

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That is VERY difficult to do. Not from a skills standpoint, but due to the roof structure and height. I can stand almost upright in a Chevy Express. The shoulder belt attached to the ceiling would come from like three feet above the back of the seat. To be effective from this height, it would also need to come from pretty far behind the seat as well. You'd end up having to reinforce the majority of the roof and would need a shoulder belt somewhere in the ballpark of 5 feet long. I'm not even sure if there would be enough room to do the back row because you'd run out of van.

DH thought of something else as well. I'm going to call the guy next week to find out if he can do it. We're thinking he might be able to weld (permanent) headrests on. They wouldn't be adjustable, but I don't care about that, really. And then he wouldn't be drilling any holes in the frame, thereby making it less structurally sound.

We haven't looked thoroughly into switching out the benches yet, but it might not be a possibility. They changed the van in '08 and the benches are different than in older models (the seatbacks are actually a little higher than older models, which is good, but still obviously not high *enough*). We're not sure if they changed the brackets (that attach the bench to the floor of the van), but we know the 4th row is different. The back bench is now a 50/50 split. DH is also worried that if we did find benches w/o shoulder belts, they'd be too old (for his liking....he doesn't want them to be *too* used) because they added shoulder belts like 5 or 6 years ago. So the non-shoulder belt benches would be at least that old.

safeinthecar said:

That is VERY difficult to do. Not from a skills standpoint, but due to the roof structure and height. I can stand almost upright in a Chevy Express. The shoulder belt attached to the ceiling would come from like three feet above the back of the seat. To be effective from this height, it would also need to come from pretty far behind the seat as well. You'd end up having to reinforce the majority of the roof and would need a shoulder belt somewhere in the ballpark of 5 feet long. I'm not even sure if there would be enough room to do the back row because you'd run out of van.

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That was my thought as well. We had an Ody where the middle seatbelt came out of the ceiling and I hated it. It never really did fit anybody well. And the ceiling height on the Express is MUCH higher than on the Ody. I don't even really like having any of my bigger (boostered) kids on the passenger side of the 3-person rows because I don't like how far away the shoulder belt attaches to the van. It doesn't seem like it would be as "secure" in an accident as one that is attached to the van right near them.

What's his problem with old benches? Old seatbelts? That's easily fixed with replacement seatbelts, no?