Is there another way the airline could have handled this?

ninejr · Dec 3, 2010

The "not allowed to gate check seat" thread got me thinking about something I saw last time I flew. So I am curious what you guys have to say since I could see this happening if I was flying by myself with both girls.

A mom got on the plane with two girls (I am assuming they were twins as they were exactly the same size, but you never know). Anyway she had purchased seats for herself and both girls and had the car seats for the girls. The airline (Horizon/Alaska) said that car seats had to be in a window seat so they made her put the girls in opposite window seats, so 1st child in seat A, mom in seat B, random stranger in seat D and 2nd child in seat E (small plane so only 2 seats on each side of aisle). The mom was pretty frustrated. The seats she had purchased were A, B, D and she had planned to put both girls next to each other and sit across the aisle. I also feel bad for the person that had a window seat (E and got moved to D and was stuck next to a child they didn't know) Is there another way they could have accommodated her? (Both kids were forward facing and they were in the bulk head if it matters, and the flight was full). It was not a rough flight and she was able to get up and walk back and forth between the girls, but I don't know what she would have done had there been turbulence and she had to stay seated. I am also sure that the random stranger was pretty annoyed.

leighi123 · Dec 3, 2010

I thought that it was OK to put 2 kids one window, one middle, adult aisle.

The reason they require kids in carseats next to the window is so no one has to climb over a carseat, but in an emergency, any kid in carseat would need assistance getting out anyway, so the kid by the window would need help regardless of who/what is in the middle seat. In the bulkhead there is even more room to get past, so that just seems stupid to me.

cat mommy · Dec 3, 2010

OP said this plane had only two seats on each side.

This arrangement is exactly how my kids and I flew on our first flight. It worked fine. Random stranger was happy to swap with me during the flight when the one sitting next to him got cranky.

On our second flight, DS sat in the window in the row ahead of us. This was better because I could have tended to him simply by leaning over the backs of the seats in front of me (KWIM). This flight was not full, so random stranger was moved to another seat and I just hopped back and forth between seats.

Per FAA rules, car seats cannot be in aisle seats because the flight attendants may need to crawl over the aisle seats in case of an emergency (if the aisles are blocked).

abacus2 · Dec 3, 2010

In that situation, I don't really think any other options are really better. It's just awkward to have a full plane with 2 kids in carseats flying with one parent in a 2 seats on each side of the aisle layout.

ketchupqueen · Dec 3, 2010

When we flew SW they were fine with our kids 2 next to each other as long as they did not block an adult's egress. So we had 2 Radians next to each other and my husband on the end, then in the row behind one car seat by the window and me next to it (3 seats in a row.)

Sounds like their rules could use some clarification. I would think it should have been fine to have the 2 girls on one side and mom on the aisle across, but there could have been a reason I guess.

HayleyCPST · Dec 3, 2010

I've heard that most airlines like you to put the car seat in the window position. That's probably because if you put the seat in the center, the passenger in the window seat might not be able to escape easily if need be.

But 2 car seats next to each other, I don't really see that as a problem....? Alaska/Horizon doesn't seem as anal as other airlines.

cat mommy · Dec 3, 2010

But 2 car seats next to each other, I don't really see that as a problem....?

I think the problem is that a flight attendant cannot scramble over the aisle seats in an emergency when the aisle is blocked with passengers. This is something the FAA considered when saying no car seats in aisle seats. So this would be an issue on any plane with only 2 seats per side. On planes with 3 seats per side, you can put the car seats in the window and middle seats with the parent/guardian sitting in the aisle seat.

Qarin · Dec 3, 2010

How is the seat more unclimbalongable with a car seat in it than with an adult in it? I'm not saying what you're saying isn't true and the reason, I just don't see how it's actually rational.

LISmama810 · Dec 3, 2010

The window is the preferred location, but airlines can use their own discretion in determining the best placement. The FAA does say that aisles shouldn't be used (because it can keep others from getting out, and does mention flight attendants needing to climb over seats, though I don't see why they couldn't just step on the car seat). I'm not sure if "should not" is the same as "may not," but it might be.

Here's what the FAA says regarding traveling with more than one child:

19. TRAVELING WITH MORE THAN ONE CHILD. In the event a parent/guardian is traveling with more than one child in a CRS or is traveling with several small children, only one of whom is occupying a CRS, good judgment should be used regarding placement of the CRSs
As long as these conditions below are met, the CRS could be placed in a seat other than a window seat. At a minimum:
• The CRS should be placed so it does not block any passengers (including the parent/guardian) egress to the aisle used to evacuate the aircraft, and
• The CRS should be placed so the parent/guardian can reach the child in the CRS to release and evacuate with the child, should an emergency evacuation be necessary.

Since that section doesn't say anything about flight attendants climbing over seats, I'd take that to mean it might be ok to put one of the kids on the aisle.

ketchupqueen · Dec 3, 2010

cat mommy said:
I think the problem is that a flight attendant cannot scramble over the aisle seats in an emergency when the aisle is blocked with passengers. This is something the FAA considered when saying no car seats in aisle seats. So this would be an issue on any plane with only 2 seats per side. On planes with 3 seats per side, you can put the car seats in the window and middle seats with the parent/guardian sitting in the aisle seat.

The FAA doesn't say no car seats in aisle seats. They say car seats may not be placed in a spot where they will block the safe egress of the other passengers.

How the airline interprets that is up to them.

LISmama810 · Dec 3, 2010

Ok, now that I've thought about it for a few more minutes, I would say that yes, it's fine to put a car seat on the aisle as long as it doesn't block an adult.

The FAA says that "shouldn't" be done (when talking about one car seat), but why even have a section on traveling with more than one kid in a car seat unless they mean for the "single car seat" rules not to apply.

I would definitely interpret that to mean that the kids together and mom across the aisle is perfectly fine (not to mention logical and non-asinine).

cat mommy · Dec 3, 2010

I'm not sure if "should not" is the same as "may not," but it might be.

Well, clearer language should have been used and may not have spurned this discussion.

Personally, in this circumstance, when looking at the entire document, I do think "should not" means "may not." And the language about the multiple car seats is to address the use of seats that are neither aisle nor window--like center seats. But, of course, more clarity would have been better.

In any event, I *DO* think a RF seat would definitely get in the way of a climbing flight attendant because of the extra bulk

and you also have the potential of a flight attendant having to step on a little kid while she/he scrambles. An adult would typically have the common sense and physical ability to get away from the flight attendant scrambling over the seats. Furthermore, with the car seats in place, the seat backs don't bend over (a feature found in many airline seats) and not having the seats bend would make the flight attendant's scramble much harder. It really does make perfect sense to me to have the car seats not in the aisle.

A ticketed child gets a seat on the plane. And gets to bring his/her car seat. But, that doesn't mean they get the seat that is most convenient. And I don't think having my DS either right in front of us or across the aisle was asinine, but rather appropriate since it provided the safest environment possible for everyone (albeit not the most comfortable or convenient).

LISmama810 · Dec 3, 2010

cat mommy said:
Well, clearer language should have been used and may not have spurned this discussion. Personally, in this circumstance, when looking at the entire document, I do think "should not" means "may not." And the language about the multiple car seats is to address the use of seats that are neither aisle nor window--like center seats. But, of course, more clarity would have been better.

In any event, I *DO* think a RF seat would definitely get in the way of a climbing flight attendant because of the extra bulk and you also have the potential of a flight attendant having to step on a little kid while she/he scrambles. An adult would typically have the common sense and physical ability to get away from the flight attendant scrambling over the seats. Furthermore, with the car seats in place, the seat backs don't bend over (a feature found in many airline seats) and not having the seats bend would make the flight attendant's scramble much harder. It really does make perfect sense to me to have the car seats not in the aisle.

A ticketed child gets a seat on the plane. And gets to bring his/her car seat. But, that doesn't mean they get the seat that is most convenient. And I don't think having my DS either right in front of us or across the aisle was asinine, but rather appropriate since it provided the safest environment possible for everyone (albeit not the most comfortable or convenient).

A flight attendant would only need to climb over the seats if the aisle is full of people, and if the aisle is full of people, it's very likely that there are still people sitting in their aisle seats, meaning that they can't really get out of the way any more than a car seat can, nor can a seatback be collapsed upon them.

I completely agree that clearer wording would make things a lot...well, clearer, though.

Neatfreak · Dec 3, 2010

I would not be certain that the carseats were the main issue for needing to split the kids up. If there was an emergency and they needed assistance, there would not have been an adult sitting with them to help with the oxygen masks. I've seen older children re-seated with their parents because of that.

cat mommy · Dec 3, 2010

Good point about the oxygen. I wonder how long the tubing on those are--like if you are wearing a mask, can you walk across the aisle?

4boysmom · Dec 4, 2010

cat mommy said:
Good point about the oxygen. I wonder how long the tubing on those are--like if you are wearing a mask, can you walk across the aisle?

My guess is the tubing is just about as long to be able to bend and put your head between your legs to get in precrash bracing position (so reach the ground or close to it) and not much more. I don't think it is going to be long enough to be "walking around" and still using. I really don't think it will reach from aisle seat to other window seat.

Is there another way the airline could have handled this?

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