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  1. #1
    Carseat Crazy MamanMag's Avatar
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    The importance of 5-point-harness

    I was just visiting you tube to get some info on install and I found this link an many others recommending the same thing, I'm sure most of you have seen them but I still thought I would share... It emphasizes the importance of 5-point-harness versus just booster and seatbelt... This video was the reason why I went to buy the Frontiers for my girls who were in the TB's. Please feel free to comment on this as I have read several times that both are equally safe. Thanks!


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azgBhZfcqaQ&feature=related"]YouTube- Importance of a 5-Point Harness Carseat[/ame]


    Mag
    Last edited by MamanMag; 07-04-2010 at 04:36 PM.
    DD1 -12yo 58" 85lbs 5-stepping in Prius, Harmony Literider in NV
    DD2 - 11yo 52" 62lbs Harmony Literider in NV or TBB in Prius
    DD3 - 5yo 42" 37lbs harnessed in Foonf or Orbit Baby Toddler in Prius
    DD4-3yrs 37" 28lbs ERF in Foonf
    DD5-3yrs 37" 28lbs ERF in Foonf

    All in Nissan NV Passenger

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  3. #2
    CPS Technician JerseyGirl'sMama's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Yup. That video has been around for some time.
    DD 5.5yrs, FF in a Recaro ProSPORT
    DS 2.75yrs, RF in a Peg Primo Viaggio


    Doofenshmirtz Evil Inc.

  4. #3
    Senior Community Member TerisBoys's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyGirl'sMama View Post
    Yup. That video has been around for some time.


    His parents went on to start the Kyle David Miller foundation, which offers higher weight seats to needy families. They also have an online store, hipmonkey.com that donates all proceeds to KDMF.



  5. #4
    Senior Community Member Jennifer mom to my 7's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    I just want to comment on the equally safe comment. You need to take this comment in the context that it is given on certain threads. NOONE here would say a 3 year old is safer in a booster. Most here would not say that a 30 pound 4 year old is safer in a booster. But, there is a compromise as the child gets older (usually at least age 5).

    There is no evidence that a child that is of proper booster age (4 years +) and proper size (at least 35 pounds if not 40, usually on a sliding scale age to weight) and proper maturity, which is the key (usually at least age 4, if not 5 or 6) is safer in a harness over a booster.

    There is a european school of thought that believes a harness past a certain age and size actually causes more head excursion than a booster.

    Everyone needs to make their own educated decision on boostering their children, and that involves age (at least 4), size, usually at least 40 pounds, and maturity, that most feel is closer to 5, than 4.
    Whatever Wendy said

    "No one else will ever know the strength of my love for you, after all, you're the only one who knows what my heart sounds like from the inside." -Unknown

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  7. #5
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer mom to my 7 View Post
    There is a european school of thought that believes a harness past a certain age and size actually causes more head excursion than a booster.
    Not to be rude, but I thought that harnessing past a certain age and size caused greater neck loads, not head excursion. Are they the same thing and I've missed something?

  8. #6
    Carseat Crazy MamanMag's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer mom to my 7 View Post
    I just want to comment on the equally safe comment. You need to take this comment in the context that it is given on certain threads. NOONE here would say a 3 year old is safer in a booster. Most here would not say that a 30 pound 4 year old is safer in a booster. But, there is a compromise as the child gets older (usually at least age 5).

    There is no evidence that a child that is of proper booster age (4 years +) and proper size (at least 35 pounds if not 40, usually on a sliding scale age to weight) and proper maturity, which is the key (usually at least age 4, if not 5 or 6) is safer in a harness over a booster.

    There is a european school of thought that believes a harness past a certain age and size actually causes more head excursion than a booster.

    Everyone needs to make their own educated decision on boostering their children, and that involves age (at least 4), size, usually at least 40 pounds, and maturity, that most feel is closer to 5, than 4.
    Thank you for clarifying this Jennifer! This makes total sense now.
    DD1 -12yo 58" 85lbs 5-stepping in Prius, Harmony Literider in NV
    DD2 - 11yo 52" 62lbs Harmony Literider in NV or TBB in Prius
    DD3 - 5yo 42" 37lbs harnessed in Foonf or Orbit Baby Toddler in Prius
    DD4-3yrs 37" 28lbs ERF in Foonf
    DD5-3yrs 37" 28lbs ERF in Foonf

    All in Nissan NV Passenger

  9. #7
    Carseat Crazy MamanMag's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer mom to my 7 View Post
    There is a european school of thought that believes a harness past a certain age and size actually causes more head excursion than a booster.
    So after a certain age it might actually be safer to put them in a booster? I never saw it that way but I would love to learn more about it! Is there any additional info out there about that?

    Actually I just thought of something, I know that pilots, F1 racers have a 5-point harness in the cockpit, racing cars, it just makes me think... They may come out of an accident alive but who knows with what type of injury... Maybe it's better for the neck if the body follows the force of the impact instead of having a strapped body and just the neck going front and back...

    Thanks again for clarifying this and I hope I did not offend anyone with my post, I truly appreciate the great and precious help that all the techs here are giving!
    DD1 -12yo 58" 85lbs 5-stepping in Prius, Harmony Literider in NV
    DD2 - 11yo 52" 62lbs Harmony Literider in NV or TBB in Prius
    DD3 - 5yo 42" 37lbs harnessed in Foonf or Orbit Baby Toddler in Prius
    DD4-3yrs 37" 28lbs ERF in Foonf
    DD5-3yrs 37" 28lbs ERF in Foonf

    All in Nissan NV Passenger

  10. #8
    CPS Technician firemomof3's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Just remember that race car drivers (like Nascar) have their helmets tethered along with the 5 point harness.
    DD1 10.5y/o seatbelt
    DD2 8y/o 45" 52lbs. backless
    DS 7y/o 51" 58lbs. ProBooster or backless

  11. #9
    CPST and ketchup snob ketchupqueen's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    *nods* I am extremely comfortable with a child who is 6 (most kids have hit it by 6, though some don't reach that maturity level until 7) and has met the minimum weight of the booster in a booster full time, provided they are neurotypical and their parents believe they have reached the maturity level necessary. I'm comfortable with most 5 to 5 1/2 year olds who weigh 40 lbs. plus in a booster. I'm comfortable with some 4 year olds who are 40 lbs. plus in a booster, but most of them that I have met do need a harness at least some of the time.

    Seatbelt failure is extremely, extremely rare, and I don't even consider that when making these choices.
    CPST and Mom to Emma, 15, Bridget, 13, Maggie, 11, Katie Sue, 6, Jimmy, born May 2019,
    and Becky, waiting for us as part of our eternal family.
    Our '02 Odyssey, car seats, and seatbelts saved our lives. Now riding in a '13 Odyssey!

  12. #10
    CPS Technician glockchick's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Quote Originally Posted by firemomof3 View Post
    Just remember that race car drivers (like Nascar) have their helmets tethered along with the 5 point harness.
    That's a relatively new thing though. They've worn 5 pt harnesses forever but didn't start tethering helmets to the car until Dale Earnhardt's fatal crash in 2001(?).
    Shanna - Paramedic & Mom
    Trenton (19), Michael (17), Gabriel (15), Miss Abigail (12), Kaleigh (10), and Caleb (8) - Evenflo booster

    They just don't make em like they used to.

  13. #11
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Quote Originally Posted by ShannaLeah View Post
    That's a relatively new thing though. They've worn 5 pt harnesses forever but didn't start tethering helmets to the car until Dale Earnhardt's fatal crash in 2001(?).
    My recollection of this is a bit foggy; however, I thought the head restraint device was already in use in the racing world at the time of his accident, but that Earnhardt had chosen not to use one -- at least I thought that's what they said in some of the news stories at the time.

  14. #12
    CPS Technician glockchick's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    It may have been available and optional or something, but none of the drivers used them at that time as I remember.

    Not saying it's not smart, or better because it is. It's a wonderful system. I was just pointing out that they wore 5 pts long before the head restraint system was in place.
    Shanna - Paramedic & Mom
    Trenton (19), Michael (17), Gabriel (15), Miss Abigail (12), Kaleigh (10), and Caleb (8) - Evenflo booster

    They just don't make em like they used to.

  15. #13
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Quote Originally Posted by singingpond View Post
    My recollection of this is a bit foggy; however, I thought the head restraint device was already in use in the racing world at the time of his accident, but that Earnhardt had chosen not to use one -- at least I thought that's what they said in some of the news stories at the time.
    The HANS device (Head and Neck Support) was optional equipment at the time of Earnhardt's fatal crash, but was not mandated until later that year. Dale Earnhardt refused to use one, however IIRC, he strongly encouaged his son (Dale Jr.) to use one.

    In 2000-2001, 5 NASCAR drivers died in crashes due to Basilar skull fractures. This type of injury is the result of the head continuing to move foward while the rest of the body is restrained by the 5 point harness. These deaths caused NASCAR to mandate the use of the HANS device in October 2001 (as well as the use of "soft walls" at all tracks).

    Hubby is a big NASCAR fan and was deeply upset by Earnhardt's death, so this was a huge factor in our discussions of when to move DS to a booster.
    Gena

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  17. #14
    Carseat Crankypants carseatcoach's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    This has been discussed extensively here. I mean no disrespect to a grieving family that is trying to reach out after their tragedy, but a heartbreaking video is not "evidence". 3yos should not be in boosters. The end. There is no solid evidence, in this video or anywhere else, that children who can properly use boosters (age and maturity and impulse control play heavily into proper use) are less safe in boosters than they are in harnessed seats.
    CPST and Mama to a 13yo girl, 5-stepped at age 10 and 5'

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  19. #15
    Carseat Crazy MamanMag's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Thank you all so much for your input and great insight! I guess the bottomline is that we keep getting ourselves informed and make sure that whatever the child restraint we use, that we make sure that it is appropriate for our child (on all points; weight, height and maturity as it has been mentionned) and that we use it correctly each and every single time. That is the best we can do...

    This forum is an amazing source of information, thanks again for your help!
    DD1 -12yo 58" 85lbs 5-stepping in Prius, Harmony Literider in NV
    DD2 - 11yo 52" 62lbs Harmony Literider in NV or TBB in Prius
    DD3 - 5yo 42" 37lbs harnessed in Foonf or Orbit Baby Toddler in Prius
    DD4-3yrs 37" 28lbs ERF in Foonf
    DD5-3yrs 37" 28lbs ERF in Foonf

    All in Nissan NV Passenger

  20. #16
    Carseat Crankypants carseatcoach's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Absolutely. Any **properly used** restraint, RFing or FFing, harness or booster, is truly very safe.
    CPST and Mama to a 13yo girl, 5-stepped at age 10 and 5'

    Posted from my toaster using a PopTart

  21. #17
    Senior Community Member Jennifer mom to my 7's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggles View Post
    Not to be rude, but I thought that harnessing past a certain age and size caused greater neck loads, not head excursion. Are they the same thing and I've missed something?
    Yes, you are probably right on that. Sorry for the confusion. I just wish I could find that study I found a couple of years ago on it.
    Whatever Wendy said

    "No one else will ever know the strength of my love for you, after all, you're the only one who knows what my heart sounds like from the inside." -Unknown

  22. #18
    CPS Fanatic StillThankful's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Quote Originally Posted by firemomof3 View Post
    Just remember that race car drivers (like Nascar) have their helmets tethered along with the 5 point harness.
    I need a tethered helmet for my girls

    C~9/06 Boostered in FR85 Livia & Maui C~2/09 Boostered in GN Daisy & Julia
    Driving in 2005 Toyota Camry & 1994 Honda Accord

  23. #19
    CPS Technician glockchick's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Quote Originally Posted by akearney3 View Post
    I need a tethered helmet for my girls
    Agreed. And a forcefield that deploys around their car seats in the event of an accident to prevent debris from coming near them.
    Shanna - Paramedic & Mom
    Trenton (19), Michael (17), Gabriel (15), Miss Abigail (12), Kaleigh (10), and Caleb (8) - Evenflo booster

    They just don't make em like they used to.

  24. #20
    CPS Fanatic StillThankful's Avatar
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    Re: The importance of 5-point-harness

    Quote Originally Posted by ShannaLeah View Post
    Agreed. And a forcefield that deploys around their car seats in the event of an accident to prevent debris from coming near them.
    LOL!!!

    5 point harness + tethered helmet + forcefield that deploys debris = A Ok!!!

    Anything we are missing?

    C~9/06 Boostered in FR85 Livia & Maui C~2/09 Boostered in GN Daisy & Julia
    Driving in 2005 Toyota Camry & 1994 Honda Accord

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