Interpreting Manual- '05 Ford 12 passenger

[skiersnowboarder3]

Help me understand this. Maybe I'm just dense but I've never seen these stipulations spelled out in a vehicle manual before.
https://goo.gl/photos/om3YCdLcDDSE8Hcn6

I hope that works, I don't have the actual manual with me. That's a screen shot of the page of the pdf of the manual. It sounds like it's forbidden in this vehicle to use a forward facing harnessed seat without the top tether? Or I can as long as I use the shoulder belt? Obviously I'll try to get all of them tethered but I didn't think it was a requirement. Also, how is using a booster safe in the back row when no other child seat is?

 

[joolsplus3]

That's a doozy of a manual...oy.
I'm guessing the third row stipulation is based on the FMVSS 213 allowance for seats without a top tether: 32". If there is just literally not enough room back there for a head to not strike a seatback, then they don't want you putting a harnessed seat back there. A child in a booster, being held directly back by the seatbelt (without extra stretch in the child restraint system installation belts and harness belts) is likely to fare better in terms of the head not flying so far forward. (Evenflo has similar warnings about booster age children in spots with no top tether, being probably better off using their combo seats in booster mode rather than harnessed without a top tether).

Ford used to also do lots of extra testing, it's entirely possible that they found seats performed better with lap/shoulderbelts than with lap belts alone (government compliance testing is lap-only). But this manual is from 2005, when there were few seats over 40 pounds, so who knows if that's valid anymore, in any case.

How many seats are you trying to get in there? How many LATCH and tether positions are there?

 

[Keeanh]

Yes, looks like they are basing that warning on the fact that there is so little space between the back 2 rows. I would personally make a parental decision to put compact rear-facing seats there if necessary and if they fit (eg. braced Radian with AA, Scenera Next, Coccoro...) but would not ignore the caution about FF seats. I agree there probably is not enough head excursion room. I also agree that they must have found there's less head excursion with shoulder belts, therefore the recommendation to use the tether anchor if you're using the lap belt. I'm assuming an 05 also has a lap belt in the middle of the 1st bench, but no requirement for a tether since there's head excursion room between the front seats.

Here's the pdf about retrofitting headrests. I just had my last bench done and I now have 11 out of 15 spots in my van with shoulder belt & headrest
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nr2jvawwbboh476/Expressheadrests.pdf?dl=0
(if Dropbox asks you to sign in, just close the sign-in box, the pdf will still show up)

 

[skiersnowboarder3]

That's a doozy of a manual...oy.
I'm guessing the third row stipulation is based on the FMVSS 213 allowance for seats without a top tether: 32". If there is just literally not enough room back there for a head to not strike a seatback, then they don't want you putting a harnessed seat back there. A child in a booster, being held directly back by the seatbelt (without extra stretch in the child restraint system installation belts and harness belts) is likely to fare better in terms of the head not flying so far forward. (Evenflo has similar warnings about booster age children in spots with no top tether, being probably better off using their combo seats in booster mode rather than harnessed without a top tether).

Ford used to also do lots of extra testing, it's entirely possible that they found seats performed better with lap/shoulderbelts than with lap belts alone (government compliance testing is lap-only). But this manual is from 2005, when there were few seats over 40 pounds, so who knows if that's valid anymore, in any case.

How many seats are you trying to get in there? How many LATCH and tether positions are there?

I need to get 8 seats in it. Currently, 3 rf, 3 ff harness, and 2 that could be harnessed or boostered. I think there are 2 full latch and 4 tt. But I haven't seen the van for myself yet.

Yes, looks like they are basing that warning on the fact that there is so little space between the back 2 rows. I would personally make a parental decision to put compact rear-facing seats there if necessary and if they fit (eg. braced Radian with AA, Scenera Next, Coccoro...) but would not ignore the caution about FF seats. I agree there probably is not enough head excursion room. I also agree that they must have found there's less head excursion with shoulder belts, therefore the recommendation to use the tether anchor if you're using the lap belt. I'm assuming an 05 also has a lap belt in the middle of the 1st bench, but no requirement for a tether since there's head excursion room between the front seats.

Here's the pdf about retrofitting headrests. I just had my last bench done and I now have 11 out of 15 spots in my van with shoulder belt & headrest
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nr2jvawwbboh476/Expressheadrests.pdf?dl=0
(if Dropbox asks you to sign in, just close the sign-in box, the pdf will still show up)

Thanks! I will check that out! It would be incredibly helpful to get headrests and shoulder belts in most of the spots. That was one of my only complaints about getting a bigger van.

 

[skiersnowboarder3]

According to the manual, the front passenger seat also has a tt.