Flying KLM - need car seat advice - must be narrower than 16.5"

[springbok]

We're flying to South Africa (from Canada) in January and our daughter will be 14.5 months old. We've bought her a ticket ($ouch$$ouch$!) and are planning on taking a car seat...but we're running into a few issues.

According to the airline, it must be 16.5" or less to fit between the arm rests, and I can't find anything like that in Canada. We have an Evenflo Symphony Triumph as our back up seat and are planning to purchase a Radian or Foonf as the primary (Foonf isn't out yet and Radian has to be used with angle adjuster to fit in our car so we're waiting until the babe is 1). Anyway...neither are are 16.5". I was thinking of buying a cheaper seat for travel that, if for some (terrible) reason, we had to check it, it wouldn't be a major loss to replace.

I've seen some suggestions on the boards that the armrests can be raised to accommodate a seat, but I contacted KLM and they said "no way". They also have a terrible policy that the seat has to be forward-facing. It upsets me, but I still feel we are making the best decision we can by actually having her in a seat instead of on our laps.

I will be contacting them to see what seats people have successfully used on their planes, but in the mean time, has anyone flown with KLM? Any suggestions?


From the KLM site: http://www.klm.com/travel/ca_en/prepare_for_travel/travel_planning/children/index.htm

Only forward facing child seats that display no defects and that carry a visible seal of approval awarded by the European Union or an official government agency may be taken aboard.

Car/child seats
Ifyou have reserved a seat for your child, we recommend that you bring your own car/child seat (child restraint device) on board.

• The car/child seat must be able to fit between the armrests of the aircraft seat (42 cm/16.5 inches).
• Your child and the child seat need to be secured according to the seat manufacturer’s instructions.
• A child seats may show no defects and must carry a visible seal of approval for use on board an aircraft by the European Union or an official government agency.

 

[MomToEliEm]

Is the Coccoro available in Canada yet? I didn't think it was, but maybe that has changed recently.

If the radian is too wide, I am not sure what seat might work. I was thinking of a baseless infant seat, but then realized that the airline probably wouldn't allow it said they said all seats must be forward facing.

Can you find out how tall the armrests typically are on these planes? Maybe we can find a seat where it is narrow at the armrest location, even though it might be wider further up.

 

[springbok]

I will ask them about the armrest height...that's a great idea. Thanks!

 

[cantabdad]

I don't see anything about "forward facing only" on the current KLM page that you linked to, nor on the equivalent page for US customers. Perhaps it is outdated language that somehow made its way to you?

Air France and KLM are owned by the same company and have almost the exact same info/requirements on their websites. Actually, KLM gives you an extra centimeter on the width (42 cm vs. 41).

We used a Britax Roundabout on Air France and while it was technically wider than the seat, it was no trouble at all to install. The base is narrow - I don't think I even had to raise the armrest. On one of the flights the crew hassled us about it being rearfacing, but the width of the seat was never an issue and they ultimately relented about the RF issue once they consulted their manual.

KLM says that the seat has to be secured according to the manufacturer's instructions, so that means RF wherever appropriate.

In general, I would not rely too heavily on info you get over the phone from the airline, since you're getting some remote customer service rep who often has no idea about actual operational rules and policies.

 

[canadiangie]

I flew KLM Calgary to Amsterdam and the armrests sure did go up. Squeeze button, raise armrest. I can only guess they don't want your car seat spilling into the seat next to it if that person isn't in your party. I think I would check-in online and see about getting a window seat for the car seat if possible. Then you can be beside baby on the aisle seat, and maybe your partner could get the aisle in the middle-section of four (assuming your plane is the same as the two that I flew on). For all the screaming and carrying on lap babies seem to go through it just blows my mind that airlines don't make using a CR a little easier on parents.

As for a narrow seat, with the armrest up, I can't imagine a Radian not fitting. I mean, my big booty fit on the seat, so how wouldn't a ff Radian?

I will say that the service on my flights was incredible. The flight crew was extremely nice and willing to assist whenever possible. You really do get what you pay for in that regard.

Have you gone on to any traveling forums to ask about CR's and KLM?

 

[springbok]

Hmmm the "forward facing only" seems to have disappeared. I swear I didn't make it up! Glad it's gone.

I finally heard back from KLM, and they couldn't tell me the height of the armrests or recommend any seats. We are probably going with a Radian. I would really like to RF on the plane, but I understand that this might be impossible with the Radian due to its height. Anyone have experience with it? I wonder if you could use the angle adjuster? Also wondering if people have had experiences RFing and blocking the seat in front from reclining? How did you/the airline handle it?

canadiangie - the agent meant that they would have to be down for take-off and landing. There was "no way" I'd be allowed to raise them during that time...but on the plane might be different. Did you use a car seat on your KLM flight?

 

[cantabdad]

I finally heard back from KLM, and they couldn't tell me the height of the armrests or recommend any seats. We are probably going with a Radian. I would really like to RF on the plane, but I understand that this might be impossible with the Radian due to its height. Anyone have experience with it? I wonder if you could use the angle adjuster? Also wondering if people have had experiences RFing and blocking the seat in front from reclining? How did you/the airline handle it?

We took several flights with an RF carseat that was braced (or nearly so) against the forward seat. One of them was an overnight flight and I did worry about the other person not being able to recline -- but he never said a word. In fact, nobody said anything on any of the flights we were on. I think flight attendants worry about this more than the actual passengers.

If someone did raise a concern, my plan was to apologize and calmly explain that the carseat was for my daughter's safety (she's too young to use just the seatbelt) and that they could ask to be re-seated if they were uncomfortable.

I've never traveled with our Radians due to their weight, but there have been several discussions on this forum about using them on the plane. The angle adjuster (AA) is said to be approved for aircraft use (though I have one and don't see anything to that effect on the labeling) and indeed, unless you're in some sort of 'economy plus' or business class seating, you will likely need the AA to make the seat fit RF between rows.

The Radian is so narrow that I really do think you'd be fine in terms of fitting in the seat. The only potential downsides to the Radian that I can see are (1) it's heavy and it's a bit of a pain to have to bring the RF boot and AA with you as well, and (2) it doesn't have built-in lockoffs, so it might be more difficult to install in cars in South Africa that may have neither LATCH/Isofix nor automatic locking retractor seatbelts.

 

[squishles10]

Once DS was over 20 lbs (min FF on seat), I forward faced him on airplanes. The Radian is enormous, and plane seats are flat- we would be stuck in the front row with no under seat storage if we insisted on using it RF. Personally, I'm concerned about turbulence, not a head on collision, in the air. Yes there's potential for something to happen during takeoff, and yes RF would be better in that situation. I play the odds to make my life easier traveling alone with a toddler. In cars he always RF, where the odds of something happening are higher.

Other people have strong opinions against this, and that's fine. I just *personally* wouldn't completely freak out if they insisted on FF (at that age, for infants, I'd flip).

 

[Eclipsepearl]

The obvious solution for a long flight like this would be to rf for take-off and landing and ff for the flight itself. The safety issue inflight is less of a "threat". The most likely times for a crash (and forward impact) are take-off and landing.

Just explain it to the person in front of you that you'll be switching it once in the air. I personally don't think it's reasonable to not let someone recline for such a long flight and you have time to reinstall.

 

[bratt]

I was just going to post the same question. I have a radian and was told it wouldn't fit in the seat, but i'm really wondering if that is true. I would FF it, since DD will be 3 by then, not very heavy, but for the flight i'm fine with ff.

Hoping to find some proof that the seat will fit, so I don't drag the seat to the airport for nothing.

 

[bratt]

I've been in contact with KLM through their Facebook page, and they have accepted my radian for both flights. I pointed out to them that the seat is a lot smaller at the bottom, and they looked at the specs again. I might not have pushed it if I hadn't been reading here.

 

[T4K]

I was on a small plane a couple weeks ago and the Radian fit beautifully. I can't imagine it not fitting in a plane seat.

 

[springbok]

We fly Sunday and are taking the Radian so wish us luck! I'll post when we're back about the success.

Since they are long and one flight is overnight, we are planning to RF (take off) FF (air) RF (landing) if it interferes with the person in front. It will be a bit of a pain since we have 7 flights total (there and back and a domestic in SA)...but we should be install experts by the end of it all!

 

[MomToEliEm]

We fly Sunday and are taking the Radian so wish us luck! I'll post when we're back about the success.

Good luck!