Having some problems...

My husband and I just adopted two boys. They are eight and six years old. They are from separate families and came with their own "problems." They both have suspected ADHD and I, personally, believe the six year old has Asperger's. Here is a little bit about their backgrounds which may help you help us... (I swear car seats are part of this post!)

Matthew (8 yr old) was born to a 16 year old girl who decided she could raise him on her own. She ran away from home and attempted to be a mom on the streets until he was 8 months. They then came back to her mom's house. Matt weighed a measley 10 pounds and was dehydrated. He stayed with his mom, his grandma, and his step-grandfather until he was four. It was then he entered pre-school and they found him with bruises and broken bones. He was taken away form there and went through 16 foster homes and spent a month at a hospital before he came to us this past year.

Jonathan (6 yr old) was born to an 18 year old in an abusive relationship. They stayed there until he was beaten to the point of being unconsious when he was two. They went to a home for 6 months before the mom found a new man. They moved in with him for 18 months until he, too, ended up being abusive. The court caught up with them and said the mom couldn't stay with the man if she wanted Jon... she chose the man over her son. He went to a fosterhome where he stayed until they couldn't handle his "challenging" behaviors. We don't know what happened between age five and now (will be seven in August) except that he was not cared for properly.

So, here is the issue... the boys WILL NOT ride in their car seats. I have tried EVERYTHING! Matt is in a Britax Parkway. He is 76 pounds (all muscle!). Jon is 43 pounds and in a Britax Regent.

So far we have tried rewarding good behavior, punishing bad behavior, not taking them anywhere we couldn't walk (turned out to be a bigger struggle keeping them with us), and ignoring it (but I just panicked the whole time).

I know your first thoughts are counselling (which they are both in) or medication (which Matt is on), but I want to know if there are some more things that are so obvious we haven't thought of them. What do you guys think? Anything easy I missed?

Sooooooo sorry this got so long and thanks to anyone still reading!

First off, congrats to you and your husband. You guys sound like true angels and Matt and Jon are so lucky to have you

When you say they won't ride in their seats, do you mean they won't get INTO them, or that once they are in them, they try and unbuckle themselves?

A little of both. I have to wrestle them in (well, Jon gets in easier than Matt. Matt literally takes both me and my husband to get him sitting in his seat.) and once they are in after about 5 minutes Jon will unbuckle (which he can do easily). Matt will stay buckled but he will slip his arm out of the belt and then slouch like crazy. If we don't by then stop or pull over 5 minutes later he unbuckles. Not only that but they will both then get up ad jump or climb or fight. We had to go get stitches last week after Matt bashed Jon's head into the door. :-/ We talked to the therapist but she had no suggestions other than to not make them ride in seats but of course I will not do that!

There are some alternative products like EZ-On harnesses which might be appropriate for your situation. Some of them fasten in the back, for example.

Congrats to you, and what a blessing you are to those boys.

I don't have any advice really. I don't think there will be any magic trick. Just keep being consistent consistent consistent. In all things I'm sure.

Maybe the Parkway is too confining for the oldest, having come from not using one at all (I'm assuming?). Maybe those wings just really TICK him off. Try one of the more "normal" looking basic ones?

Even Matt, its not ideal, but he's six and IF he sits properly in a booster, its safer than pulling out of the Regent. He probably sees the Regent as a baby-seat. I know, I know, the kid shouldn't dictate, but this is a special case, ya know?

Maybe take them both shopping and tell them they WILL be in a booster, pick one. Let them know, if they don't ride well in whatever they pick, back to their Britaxes. Maybe that responsibility will work. It would suck to put aside a Parkway and a Regent, but at this point, I'm sure you'd just be happy to have them not fighting a seat.

Maybe get the EZ On, and they'll really hate that idea, so their current seats won't seem so bad. (I know they are nice and serve a purpose, but I'm pretty sure they'll see them as straight-jackets.)

Best wishes.

Have you explained to them that they're riding in the seats for their own safety? Maybe a carseat safety video would help?

Have you looked into diets re: the behavior, especially Asperger's? I was diagnosed w/ ADD as a kid and now as an adult have found that if I don't eat the foods I'm allergic to (milk and eggs) I am not jumpy and can concentrate very well. I've also read that parents w/ kids on the autism spectrum often find a dairy- and gluten-free diet "cures" them.

I also wanted to say these poor poor kids. I really admire you for taking them in. It sounds like they really need love and are trying to test you to the max!

What are the boy's favorite activities ? Do the like anything special ?
Do the like rewards ?
Do they have to be in a car seat every day ? For how long ?
Can you make test drives for just 5 minutes and if they stay in the car seat, they get a reward ? Than try to extend the time slowly....

First off, thanks to everyone for the support! I really appreciate all the nice thoughts.

res149- I don't know if you're really asking me or just trying to get me thinking about rewards so here are the answers. Matt is really into hockey and rollerblading. He also talks about, "rollerblading on ice" but he has never been ice skating. Trucks are also a big interest and his play (except for sports) is around a 4 yr old level. Jon also likes rollerblading and hockey (hmm... maybe time to start a rollerhockey neighborhood team?!?!?!) as well as bike riding. Other than those he mainly takes part in repetative play such as staking blocks and knocking them down. The one thing they enjoy the most as a reward is "squeezes" where i hug them tight enough that it hurts my husband. They LOVE it though. They do have to be in the seat every day. They go to the public school (just until things get sorted out. I want to homeschool but right now they are getting additional services there so they will finish this year there) about 5 minutes away. Twice a week they also go to a therapist 20 minutes away. That is pretty much it. I think that it is a great idea. Maybe I'll even start shorter... just buckling them up without a fight earns a "squeeze"!

Today's Unregistered- I have explained to them it is because I love them. But the people before that have "loved" them beat them and neglected them. I don't think they really "get" I am doing this to take care of them. As for diets, I am now looking at them. I see most of the allergens are ones they crave and that is a definate case here. I had to put a lock on the fridge after I found Jon with two empty milk jugs which he had downed. Thanks for the info and I'm looking into it even more now! Any other information you ahve on it would be awesome!

Yesterday's Unregistered- Also a great idea having them try out new seats! We went today after school but that turned out to be a bad idea. They were overstimulated and with all the crying kids (Babies 'R Us) they couldn't hold it together. We will try again this weekend maybe right when they open in the morning. Do you ahve any suggestions for less confining seats if we can't pull it together enough to pick any out?

UlrikeDG- I looked at those and the ones that fasten in the back look great. But, is there anyway to cover the actual vehicle belt? I'm afraid they would figure out to do that to get out.

Thanks everyone for all the help so far! (And once again it is soooo long. My apologies!)

I'm "unregistered" from 10:08 PM.

I don't have any specific seat ideas, but I'm just trying to think from their POV. Being in a Parkway might be just too much for a kiddo who's not used to something with "wings". Most other boosters don't have wings and are basically just a lift up for the kid. He's pretty big though, maybe the Evenflo Big Kid? Seems some might only go to 80 lbs?? I'm not sure, I'm not in the booster loop yet.

It sounds like you are doing a great job.

Not on the topic of car seats, but if you do decide to try dietary changes, feel free to email/PM me. We use Feingold (http://www.feingold.org) with our ADHD/ODD almost-ten yo with great success.

I'm the unregistered w/ the food allergies. A great book for that is "Is This Your Child?" by Doris Rapp, MD. You will need to cut out suspected allergens completely for 2 full weeks (so no processed foods--everything from scratch, summer is the best time for this so they're not at school eating G-d knows what!) Then try adding them back in 1 at a time, w/ like a week in between to see what they react to. The most common food allergens are dairy, eggs, soy, wheat, nuts, peanuts, fish and shellfish. For behavioral problems, I would also try corn and artificial dyes (dyes are a big one for me, but they're not considered real allergies. THey make me, my siblings and my oldest son nuts!) Unless you live in NY, it's hard to find docs that use her methods. I just avoid allergens completely, it's easier that way. If I cheat once in a while, I feel awful and sear I never will again. And I do weeks or months later. SOmeday I'll learn. lol. Another great book w/ lots of really good info is "The Food ALlergy Survival Guide," multiple authors inc Vesanto Melina. Check at your library. Ours has both.

As for boosters, we really like the Graco Turbobooster. The big guy is probably too tall for the back, though. Good luck!

scatersbabscpst - you really feel the feingold program helps? Is it really hard to maintain? Sorry to highjack this post - I have a three year old with reactive airway, gastric reflux, and severe emotional/behavioral problems. We are in counseling and therapy, but thinks keep getting more challenging. We are getting ready to see a developmental pediatric neurologist, but I am open to anything that might help my child. Thanks

Hi, from a younger person's point of view, I can see why your kid's don't like their seats. I'm a 13 year old at high school, and I use a regent like your 6 year old. I behave in mine, but to be honest I don't like it at all.

unregistered

Absolutely it has helped, and we don't even follow it 100%. (One of the things you remove at first are salycilates (sp), and we are waiting until school lets out to do the full elimination.)

The studies I've read show kids who follow the plan 100% (including replacing body care products like toothpaste and shampoo, household cleaners, ect) have a HUGE reduction in ADHD-spectrum behaviours.

The biggest improvement I've seen has been with my son's ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder) behaviours. We no longer have the screaming fits at school that require the aides to literally carry him out of the classroom.

It's a little more work at first, but the payoffs are totally worth it.

Well, we went car seat shopping today. I learned a new thing which is, "Explain everything in details, take pictures, talk about it, and keep reminding" and we had a successful trip.

And BIG news!!! After 20 minutes and trying many, many seats, Jon announced, "I like my seat now." Ten minutes later Matt piped in, "Me, too. I want to keep it." I sat them down right there in the store and told them that if they keep their seats, they had to sit nice. We went to the car and they both buckled up. We had to pull over once when Matt unbuckled and started yelling, but I just pulled over to the side and took Jon out so Matt couldn't hurt him and after about 5 minutes it stopped and the rest of the trip was a breeze!

I think that may have been just a test. They wanted to see where we stood and what they did or did not have control over. Lets hope the good car behavior lasts!

And, no one worry about, "hijacking"! I hope you all learned a lot about the diet! I think I will start looking into it to try when school gets out.

One more "off topic" question... skaterbabscpst, do you know a website for the diagnostic criteria of ODD? These kids were lost in the system for so long that I'm afraid they never got the medical/psychiatric care they needed. Of course, it could be associated with their life until now, but I really see Asperger's/Autism in Jon and ODD in Matt.

That's great!! Cooperation is a wonderful thing.

We're getting new seats for our Suburban and my boys are very excited at getting to pick out the covers for their seats. lol
What did you get (just for curiosity sake lol)?

Re: webpage/ definition of ODD : Let me look, I know I at one time had it bookmarked.

And honestly, the best thing I ever did was put our whole family on Feingold. The boys' elementary school was pressuring us to medicate at the end of last year. We started FG about 2 weeks before this school year started and 3 weeks into the year the vice principal asked me what we had done because the changes were so obvious.

CJ's worst ODD symptoms were huge screaming fits in which he would say really horrible things to get attention. He was evaluated "professionally" because the school required it (leading to the ADHD/ODD dx ), but we have a family friend who'd done crisis/suicide counseling for years that couldn't believe what the school was putting us through. Within a week the fits had stopped almost completely. Now instead of daily hysterics and screaming fits, we might have ONE SMALL episode a month, far more like a "normal ten year old" (whatever that means! lol)

An added bonus is that NO ONE in our house got sick all winter long. DD picked up a bug that dh got from his brothers about a month ago, and I had to call MIL to pick up medicine because ours had all expired! LOL

Sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear, but they kept the Regent and Parkway! That is what I meant by them liking their seats, "now". We did look online at covers and they decided that they wanted new ones. We are still in that process but so far Matt likes Bubbly Fun and Woodstock while Jon loves Blue Bouquet and Sahara. I had originally purchased Onyx so they wouldn't fight. Personally I am hoping that Jon will go for Sahara because I know how mean kids can be. But, we always have the Onyx to change back to if that happens. Anyone know what these fabrics are like?

Thanks for all the help in both the car seats and in the medical information! I know where to come if I ever need help, now!

That's great!

Bouquet is velour, Sahara is like your Onyx - velour on the sides, shiny in the middle.

Not sure what the booster covers are like....

Sounds like great progress.

The PW covers are both plush - I like both of those too, but my boys want boring black.