Lap belts only, expired shield booster & a 5 year old...

April

Well-known member
Okay, so I basically just need someone to confirm that I'm telling this friend the right thing to do. A friend of mine was over tonight and parked behind me, so I had to take her van to the store. Its a 1990 Plymouth Voyager, lap belts only in all rear seating positions. Her 5 year old DS was not with her, but his booster was in the middle row driver's side outboard seat......A Cosco Explorer I shield booster. :eek: I came back and quickly ran down to the computer and looked it up in the pictorial archive, and sure enough it is exact same as the one in the picture, discontinued in 1996.

I talked with her and told her that a) his seat is expired, b) a shield booster is far from the safest, and c) she needs to get him in a proper seat asap. She is a single mom on welfare who just got her first job and is 6 months clean off drugs. She's really trying to get her life together and obviously funds and very very limited. She was very receptive and I told her that ideally he should be harnessed, but she just can't afford to buy him a hwh seat anytime soon.

She mentioned that she has his old seat, sounds like a 3 in 1. I told her that I would check with you guys first, but that I think her best option at this point is to put him in the 3 in 1 in the front passenger seat. I'm 99% sure that there's no airbag, but maybe someone can confirm. The front passenger seat is stationary, so she can't move it back, but its quite far back from the dash as it is. I sat in the seat (without the 3 in 1 obviously) and with my arms fully extended in front of me I was about 3 or 4 inches away from being able to touch the dash. I checked the seatbelt and it is an ELR retractor.

She said that once I double checked that that was the right thing to do, she'd put him up there in the 3 in 1. She said that the lap belt fits him pretty good in booster mode in the seat. She's going to save up and get a highback Turbobooster as soon as she can.

Any input on this situation is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
ADS

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Honestly, in this particular instance, I think I'd rather see him lapbelt only, center of rear seat without a booster unless the lapbelt was up on his tummy. Most booster laws have exceptions for vehicle seating positions without a lap/shoulder belt.

I'm just not sure about putting him in a) the 3in1 as a booster in b) the front seat in a van that is old enough to not have that good of crash test ratings and possibly have generation 1 airbags - the most dangerous kind to a young passenger.

The balance of risks in my mind is that the airbag is a greater risk than the risk of his head striking the interior of the vehicle - provided that the lapbelt isn't high on his tummy. Seatbelt syndrome is not something I'd want to risk... if the lapbelt was high, I'd want a backless booster for the front seat - she should be able to get one at wal-mart for around $26. That would slightly increase the distance between her ds and the front of the vehicle...

How much does her ds weigh and how tall is he? Would one of the evenflo combo seats be an option? You can get a chase for $90... would she have family that could help her out? It would also make a better booster. I'm not so sure that the belt would fit well enough in a 3in1 to prevent seatbelt syndrome type injuries either... and then there's the issue of if his ears are above the top of the seat shell...

In this particular circumstance there really is no really good solution that is going to be inexpensive for her. The balance of risks is tricky, and a harnessed seat would really be ideal. Lap belts really aren't safe for any passengers, but I have my doubts if this situation may make it the lesser of 2 evils...

Not sure if that helps at all. I think I might be inclined to call whatever government # has been set up with the new booster law for some information. Or even call TC for some advice on selecting what scenario is going to have the least risk if she's not able to get a harnessed seat right away...
 

Judi

CPST/Firefighter
So yeah, I would do that for now. Providing that there is not an air bag. But replace with a good booster ASAP. The only way I would let him ride in the back is in a HWH seat.
 

Gypsy

Senior Community Member
I'm with Trudy.

In addition, for the price of a high back turbobooster she can get an 86Y harness, which is great for a lap belt, and she can tether it to a lap belt behind where he sits until she can get the heavy duty tether anchor installed.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I'm with Trudy.

In addition, for the price of a high back turbobooster she can get an 86Y harness, which is great for a lap belt, and she can tether it to a lap belt behind where he sits until she can get the heavy duty tether anchor installed.

86Y is available in Canada, but it has to be gotten through special channels - this would be something that she could contact TC about though. Maybe she could contact Dodge about having lap/shoulder belts retrofitted - would they be able to do that?

(brainstorming out loud...)

eta: Ok, I'm doubting myself now, it's either 86Y or ez-on harness that has CMVSS approval but isn't distributed. Parents need to get a special recommendation, then go through the appropriate channels - TC is able to explain exactly what those channels are as I don't fully understand them myself - I just know that a parent here has gotten one in the past.
 

April

Well-known member
Honestly, in this particular instance, I think I'd rather see him lapbelt only, center of rear seat without a booster unless the lapbelt was up on his tummy.

REALLY???? I would never have thought that would be better. I'm not questioning you, just surprised.

I'm just not sure about putting him in a) the 3in1 as a booster in b) the front seat in a van that is old enough to not have that good of crash test ratings and possibly have generation 1 airbags - the most dangerous kind to a young passenger.

I'm hoping someone can check for me if there's airbags or not. However, there were no markings whatsoever indicating that there was an airbag.

Seatbelt syndrome is not something I'd want to risk... if the lapbelt was high, I'd want a backless booster for the front seat - she should be able to get one at wal-mart for around $26. That would slightly increase the distance between her ds and the front of the vehicle...

So you're saying that would be better compared to a highback because it would keep him further from the dash than a highback right?

How much does her ds weigh and how tall is he? ...

He's smaller than Griffin, who is 47lbs, 46 inches, and has a 15.5 inch torso. Don't know if his torso is smaller, but in general he is smaller than Griffin.

Would one of the evenflo combo seats be an option? You can get a chase for $90... would she have family that could help her out? ...

I guess its going to depend on his weight. I'll get her to weigh him tomorrow. Not sure about family helping her. I'll see if she can ask her mom.
 

April

Well-known member
Isn't the 86Y only for 66lbs and up? There's no way he's 66 lbs.

Most importantly, what does she do with him TOMORROW?
 

Judi

CPST/Firefighter
Am I reading your siggy right, that you have an "extra" apex? If so, could you lend her that to use as a booster in the front seat? I am assuming that there are no headrests in the back? Or lend the RN?
 

Gypsy

Senior Community Member
Am I reading your siggy right, that you have an "extra" apex? If so, could you lend her that to use as a booster in the front seat? I am assuming that there are no headrests in the back? Or lend the RN?

Why not use it harnessed in the back seat?
 

Gypsy

Senior Community Member
Yes.

Headrests or not, the Apex in the back seat (harnessed) is still going to provide more protection than the Apex in the front seat (in booster mode) - especially in booster mode. It's not something I could officially recommend as a tech, but I would give the parent as much info as possible and if they decided to use it in the rear seat without a headrest I'd be more than ok with it and not fight or dissuade them at all.

Whiplash (the issue with the Apex headrest) is a less severe condition than seatbelt syndrome and less of a concern than being in the front seat and much closer to the most common point of impact.
 

April

Well-known member
Can't lend the Apex. The Apex is in my truck and the other three seats move between mine and DH's truck. So in DH's truck, Riley rides in the RN. We have four kids and four seats at the moment. The three older kids are DH's with his ex (my step kids), so technically we do sometimes have spare seats. But their mom is so random and sometimes she just drops them off at the front doorstep with no warning, so I can't really lend out any seat. :( And we definitely have all the kids tomorrow.

Darnit I knew I should've bought that Frontier on Tuesday instead of buying DH presents!:doh:
 

April

Well-known member
So, if that isn't an option, I would use the 3 in 1 as a booster, in the front.

Okay, so that's the short term, now what about long term???? Highback in the front, lowback in the front, something in the back?

I honestly don't see this girl being able to buy a hwh seat. The cheapest would be an Apex and the best deal I've found in Canada is $159.99.
 

Judi

CPST/Firefighter
E-Z-ON makes some products that will work for him. As the PP said, you will have to check with TC. If you lived closer, I would give you a booster!
 

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