3yo on a bus??

I was just reading the '5yo on a bus' thread, and I have a similar situation. However, my DS is 3 years old. Well, 3 years and almost 5 months. He weighs about 33 pounds now, and I just (as in last weekend) turned his Wizard and Marathon seats FF.

An announcement just came home Monday from his public school preschool, that the combined preschool classes will be going on a field trip in a few weeks, and that they will be riding in 'big yellow school buses'. So, there will be about 50 kids total, mainly 3 and 4 year-olds, with a few already-turned-fives. Our district's buses do not have seat belts (well, maybe a few do have belts in the front few seats -- I'll ask, out of curiosity, about the bus to be used on this trip). The field trip destination is about 1/2 hour's ride away, and involves some highway travel.

I realize that school buses are statistically safe, in terms of having few accidents. My understanding of 'comparmentalization' is that it is thought to work for older bigger children. Are there just no data for smaller kids, or is there a specific reason compartmentalization is not as effective for them?

I will almost certainly not be letting DS ride on the school bus. I have to inquire if I am allowed to drive him to the destination independently, and then join the group. I could volunteer to chaperone, and then I could ride on the bus and at least make sure HE is sitting properly, but I think I'd rather have him harnessed in his own carseat.

I wonder how many adults they plan to have along on the trip, to at least try to keep all those wiggly 3 and 4 year-olds sitting down on the bus....

I'm not happy with the whole thing, but am not convinced enough that it is really REALLY unsafe to raise a stink with the organizers of the trip.

Any opinions? Data on kids this age in school buses?

Katrin

They dont' think or it is the only way to transport all the kids at once without making parents drive carpools (and then you have the risk of improperly restrained kids because not everyone installs/uses seats right.

If the child is over 40lbs and is mature enough to sit still the whole time (IMO, this does not happen before age 4), then I would let them (and only you know your child).

Otherwise, keep him home.

My oldest (so far the only one to have this situation at that age), was over 40lbs and he was 4, so I let him... but we went over the rules for a couple weeks before (and then again the summer before he went to kindergarten) and I was confident he would behave.

In fact, I was told by his preschool teacher that he was one of the best ones on the trip. We had planned ahead that he could look out the window (but not raise himself to do so... he could look up and out if nothing else) and count trees, he and the child next to him could play rock paper scissors (already a favorite of his), and of course, knowing the destination motivated him to stay still so that he would be allowed to go.

I told him point blank that if he did not behave, he would not be riding the bus in kindergarten. Of course, this child LOVES LOVES LOVES the school bus (though in first grade, we had issues with him being afraid everyone would touch his ears, but that's another story), so it was easy to motivate him to behave and stay still.

I attended a bus safety workshop at Lifesavers, specifically addressing seatbelts on buses, and I would definitely NOT feel comfortable with any child under the size of an average 6yo riding a big bus without seatbelts. Compartmentalization does not work effectively for smaller children. I would also find some bus safety information to give the school district. I'm on my way to take dd to school, so I can't find any myself, but SafetyBeltSafeUSA might have something in their Resources or Helpful Handouts sections.

I agree with Jenny. I would not let an average-sized 3YO ride on a regular school bus.

I wonder if there are regulations in your state regarding how children under a specific age must be transported in terms of school transportation? Some states require that children under, say, 4 must be transported in a smaller bus w/restraints of some specified type. I assume that your school would know about such rules and follow them, but it couldn't hurt to check it out.

I agree with Jenny as well. I would not let my child ride at that age.

That age and size, no.

And I agree - most states don't allow kids that little to be transported on 'big, yellow busses'.

That said - my 45# 5.5yo rides the bus TO school. A whole block and a half. (Silly rule requiring kindies to be driven or bussed anyway). I'm perfectly comfortable with that.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/buses/Guide1999/prekfinal.htm

Printing out the above NHTSA recommendations for pre-schoolers on buses might be helpful for anyone who wants some 'backup' for not allowing their 3 or 4 yo on a school bus. It says, in part:

"RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE TRANSPORTATION OF PRE-SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN IN SCHOOL BUSES

When pre-school age children are transported in a school bus, NHTSA recommends these guidelines be followed:

(1) Each child should be transported in a Child Safety Restraint System (suitable for the child's weight and age) that meets applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSSs).

(2) Each child should be properly secured in the Child Safety Restraint System.

(3) The Child Safety Restraint System should be properly secured to the school bus seat, using anchorages that meet FMVSSs."

our YMCA daycare just got a bus with seatbelts and padded high seatbacks (the other one had low seatbacks and plastic, no seatbelt seats!) - my boss thought I was weird for being excited...lol

Our district requires the Pre-K students (so 4 and 5 and I'm assuming if headstart goes anywhere, they probably use the vans and require seats) to ride the special ed buses and use the harnesses. I can't imagine letting Evan ride a big bus, even the special ed buses would be stretching it for him, lol. He's the same age as your son, but only 27#. I would ask to see. AJ's class took a field trip last year and I did not let him go b/c his school did just use a large, normal school bus (for 3-5yo ).

Those of you talking about seatbelts, are they lap only? I'd rather my child ride in a normal schoolbus w/ no seatbelts than have lap only belts, unless I could strap his carseat in.

Are you sure they are using district buses for the trip? If I were you, I would find out asap how they plan to accommodate carseats on the bus. Whenever our preschool takes a field trip, they get a bus with lap belts and a child cannot go unless they are in their carseat on the bus. The drivers are also specially trained to install carseats, and let me tell you, the last drive we had was awesome - she got every kind of seat in that you could imagine with a tight fit.

"Those of you talking about seatbelts, are they lap only? I'd rather my child ride in a normal schoolbus w/ no seatbelts than have lap only belts, unless I could strap his carseat in."

Could you direct me to the stats on this? I can't find a thread but remember reading somewhere that lap belts on a school bus are worse than no restraint at all. This is going to be an issue for me in the fall when my son starts kindergarten and I want to have my facts straight! Thanks!

I've sent a polite email to the preschool teacher, asking for clarification about the school buses to be used on the trip. I will let you know what she says! Thanks for the comments and links; if it turns out to be a standard (no seat belts) district bus, I will be passing some of this information on to her.

Katrin

TerisBoys said:

(Silly rule requiring kindies to be driven or bussed anyway).

Click to expand...

Wait. What? Your school has a rule against kids walking/being walked (or biked?) to school? How can this be?

I've had a response from the preschool teacher -- she says she can arrange to have a 'starseat' put on the bus for my DS, and that I can sit next to him (if I would like him to have the experience of riding on the bus with his classmates); or I am welcome to drive him myself if I prefer. So... a very friendly response overall. However, it certainly seems to imply that most of the kids will NOT be riding in restraints, since my email is being treated as a special request.

What's a 'starseat'? Is it something I would be curious to see?

I guess I'm still inclined to transport him myself (he'll have plenty of time in coming years to 'enjoy the school bus experience', so to speak), but I have to admit I'm curious to witness the bus ride.

I will check out some of the links that others posted earlier in the thread, and will see if I can find out anything about regulations in our state. This is a special-ed preschool program, by the way (DS is attending because of an expressive language delay). The district clearly has some capability to transport smaller kids in proper restraints, since the special needs kids are given the option of district transport. I drive DS to and from school, so I haven't actually seen the inside of the small buses they use to transport the kids on a daily basis. Children who attend as 'community peers' must be transported to/from school by their parents; they don't have the option of district transport.

For this field trip, of course, the non-special-needs kids need transport also. In addition, the morning and afternoon classes will all go on the trip together. Oh.... I just re-read the info. sheet, and the non-special-ed preschool (which is run in a different part of the building) will be joining the trip also (!!!). So that brings it to quite a bit more than the 50 kids I was estimating originally. I assume the district just has no provisions for transporting that many preschoolers in proper restraints, since they normally have no need to do so.

I don't know -- it sounds like a zoo all around . I feel bad for all those other kids from a safety p.o.v., although, statistically, school buses have very few accidents, so I'm not sure how much to push the point with the school.

Katrin

Star seats are Safeguard bus restraints, somewhat similar to the SafeGuard Go: http://www.safeguardseat.com/bus/products_addon.htm

Our preschool is required to have all kids under five strapped in to five point harnesses. The preschool is part of our regular school district and it's policy. I would not put a 3 yr old on a bus(or for that matter a small kindergartner which is why I've driven my girls to school everyday this year).

This is a bit of a tangent, but my 3 year 5 month old daughter is DYING to ride a public bus. She's obsessed with them & with the "Wheels on the Bus" ...LOL! So, my question is, is it safe for me to take her on a bus trip? Of course it would be with me & a pretty short one, but I'm worried it won't be safe. It would be a one time only thing, just to make her happy. Any thoughts?

I have taken H on public transportation before, both a light rail train and a big city bus. She loved it. It's nerve-wracking on the bus, definitely, but I just remind myself of the crash statistics (which are different for city buses than school buses, but still very low overall) and try not to sit on side-facing seats.

The Star seats are great, those are what the small buses here have for the smaller kids.

If possible, I'd look into your district's transportation policy and make sure they are actually allowed to transport preschool kids on big buses. I don't think that's allowed in many places.

I buckle preschoolers in on a bus every day. I teach preschool special education. I hate the built in seats that fold down from the seat backs. The harnesses are always sticking and fit too loose. We have a few kids in StarSeats because they don't fit in the others. I like them. Easy to put the kids in, easy to get the straps tight and in a good position, etc. Don't get me started on how they are supposed to stop using the harness at 4 or 40! Its a whole lot of work if we want/need to keep a student harnessed longer.

Tina

Jeanum said:

Star seats are Safeguard bus restraints, somewhat similar to the SafeGuard Go: http://www.safeguardseat.com/bus/products_addon.htm

Click to expand...

Interesting -- thanks for the link!

Katrin