Advice on replacing a Marathon with a combo/booster

Westerley · Mar 15, 2014

Hello!

I'd like to replace an expired Britax Marathon (classic?) that my daughter is using, and would appreciate any advice or recommendations anyone would have. Here are the specifics of my situation:

My daughter is a little over 2 years old, ~13kg/28 lb, and ~95cm/37in. She's been around the 90th percentile for height for most of her life, and now is average weight for her age. I imagine she'll continue to be tall for her age for the next few years.
We intend to travel by plane to Europe and the US and I would like to use the new seat on the plane and in the car once we arrive at our destination. We travel once or twice a year.
The new seat has to fit in the middle row of a 2007 Honda Odyssey along with two Britax B-Safe infant seats occupied by our newborn twin boys. My daughter would be sitting in driver's side bucket seat (though open to putting her in the middle if that could work), front facing.
We are in Canada.

I was thinking of getting a Britax Frontier 90 or something similar. However, I understand that this seat is only acceptable for airplane use while she fits in the 5-point harness. Thereafter, we would have to check the seat in so that we could use it at the destination. Its pretty big and bulky, and so I really would prefer something easier to transport via plane if it can't be used on board.

Does anyone have any recommendations on what to get? Should I go the route of a combo/booster, or get a convertible seat and a second booster (that is easier to check in) for use when travelling?

Would a Graco Nautilus be an option? I understand it can be converted to a backless booster, which (presumably) would be easier to travel with when my daughter is old enough.

Thanks for any advice given!

(Edit: Just to be clear, our twins are ABOUT to arrive - our Marathon doesn't actually sit with the two B-Safe's because its too wide so the new seat would have to be narrower)

W.

Keeanh · Mar 25, 2014

Hi! Sorry, I don't have any experience with your vehicle. I'm mostly bumping this up in hopes someone with an Odyssey will see it

Sorry it got missed when you first posted!

The Frontier is a very wide and bulky seat. If space is a concern, and you want a lighter seat for travel, I would actually look at the Evenflo Sureride/Titan65. It doesn't become a booster, but it will last your 2yo for another 4-ish years and then you can pass it down. And since it only costs $100, you would still come out ahead even having to buy a separate booster later.

A rear-facing Radian might puzzle with infant seats if you're open to rear-facing your 2yo.

Westerley · Mar 28, 2014

Thanks for your reply!

Would it not be possible to put a front facing seat in the plus one position, tethered to one of the floor anchors used by the third row seats (when the third row is folded, of course)? Those floor anchors look far more beefy than the 'official' tether anchors provided by Honda.

Thanks again,
W.

canadiangie · Mar 28, 2014

No, none of us are going to say its ok to use a non-approved location to tether to. Personally, knowing what I know about the importance of top tethering to reduce forward head excursion, thereby reducing the risk of head injuries, would never even consider make-shifting a tether anchor. Use what Honda gave you because they engineered the hardware and did the crash testing. The alternative edges towards using a kiddo as a crash test dummy - which sounds cliche and almost offensive, but it's kind of true.

I would see if one of the B-Safe bases installs well on the 2nd row middle seat. If not, I would remove that middle seat and push one captains chair over to the middle and then have both babies there. Put your oldest in the 3rd row and you'll have easy access to her because of the 'side aisle' you created by pushing the captains chairs together.

(I'm just assuming your van offers this feature -- if not then back to the drawing board).

For your oldest I would look at rear facing her, but if that isn't on the table then a lighter weight convertible is what I would get. Eventually she could get a combination seat (harness to booster) and one of the babies could take the convertible. The Evenflo SureRide is a nice seat. Not wide or heavy and would last her a long time, or until one of the boys needs it.

Westerley said:
Thanks for your reply!

Would it not be possible to put a front facing seat in the plus one position, tethered to one of the floor anchors used by the third row seats (when the third row is folded, of course)? Those floor anchors look far more beefy than the 'official' tether anchors provided by Honda.

Thanks again,
W.

Chila88 · Mar 29, 2014

canadiangie said:
. If not, I would remove that middle seat and push one captains chair over to the middle and then have both babies there. Put your oldest in the 3rd row and you'll have easy access to her because of the 'side aisle' you created by pushing the captains chairs together. (I'm just assuming your van offers this feature -- if not then back to the drawing board).

This is the setup I switched to when I had my 3rd baby and it works great for us! My oldest daughter rides in a Frontier in the 3rd row.

Westerley · Mar 29, 2014

canadiangie said:
The Evenflo SureRide is a nice seat. Not wide or heavy and would last her a long time, or until one of the boys needs it.

Thanks Angie! I'm in Calgary as well

Regarding the SureRide, I had a look at it and does look like it could do what I need. However, if I'm not mistaken it doesn't have the LUAS connectors. Is there an equivalent Evenflo that does have the LUAS (perhaps a step up from the SureRide)?

Westerley · Mar 29, 2014

canadiangie said:
No, none of us are going to say its ok to use a non-approved location to tether to. Personally, knowing what I know about the importance of top tethering to reduce forward head excursion, thereby reducing the risk of head injuries, would never even consider make-shifting a tether anchor. Use what Honda gave you because they engineered the hardware and did the crash testing. The alternative edges towards using a kiddo as a crash test dummy - which sounds cliche and almost offensive, but it's kind of true.

Perhaps a topic for a different thread, but just for completeness I'll respond here. I do so reluctantly though, as I don't want anything I say to fuel foolish behaviour by others... I don't think your parallel of using a kiddo as a crash test dummy is at all inappropriate.

But with that said, it should also be recognized that there is a difference between what is safe to do and what the car manufacturer has expended the resources to test. It could very well be that the floor anchors are FAR more suitable to use as a tethering point but Honda doesn't see it as a use case worth testing - indeed, using the floor anchor as I asked about would completely negate the possibility of having the third row folded out.

As an engineer, I'm not completely bothered by something not being tested to the nth degree before I'm confident to use it, but I DO want clear evidence of the thing being designed appropriately - for example, the floor anchor being designed and secured in such a way that it can bear at least the loads required of the 'official' tethers. I suppose that that was what I was really asking, though I did it in a very obtuse way. And I also now realize that its a question that CAN'T be answered in a forum like this, as I certainly wouldn't easily want to vouch to others for something's suitability that isn't proven.

Soooo, by no means am I recommending that others use the floor anchors for tethering. And indeed, after further thought, its not what I want to do either. But does anyone have any hard information on the requirements 'proper' tethers are to be designed to?

Westerley · Mar 29, 2014

Chila88 said:
This is the setup I switched to when I had my 3rd baby and it works great for us! My oldest daughter rides in a Frontier in the 3rd row.

Thank you Chila! I've also thought of other configurations that I could use, but for our scenario, none of them are as good as three in the middle row

If it really comes to it, I may have to look at a Foonf

Chila88 · Mar 29, 2014

I don't disagree with what you are saying here, sometimes as parents we need to make parental decisions about what we are comfortable with when it comes to the safety of our kids. But I think what Angie is saying, and I 100% agree with her, is that as a tech we simply cannot recommend to a parent that they go against manufacturers directions, or use something in a way it hasn't been specifically tested for. Because we are making recommendations that impact the safety of a child's life, it would be entirely unwise.

Westerley said:
Perhaps a topic for a different thread, but just for completeness I'll respond here. I do so reluctantly though, as I don't want anything I say to fuel foolish behaviour by others... I don't think your parallel of using a kiddo as a crash test dummy is at all inappropriate. But with that said, it should also be recognized that there is a difference between what is safe to do and what the car manufacturer has expended the resources to test. It could very well be that the floor anchors are FAR more suitable to use as a tethering point but Honda doesn't see it as a use case worth testing - indeed, using the floor anchor as I asked about would completely negate the possibility of having the third row folded out. As an engineer, I'm not completely bothered by something not being tested to the nth degree before I'm confident to use it, but I DO want clear evidence of the thing being designed appropriately - for example, the floor anchor being designed and secured in such a way that it can bear at least the loads required of the 'official' tethers. I suppose that that was what I was really asking, though I did it in a very obtuse way. And I also now realize that its a question that CAN'T be answered in a forum like this, as I certainly wouldn't easily want to vouch to others for something's suitability that isn't proven. Soooo, by no means am I recommending that others use the floor anchors for tethering. And indeed, after further thought, its not what I want to do either. But does anyone have any hard information on the requirements 'proper' tethers are to be designed to?

canadiangie · Mar 29, 2014

Westerley said:
Thanks Angie! I'm in Calgary as well

Regarding the SureRide, I had a look at it and does look like it could do what I need. However, if I'm not mistaken it doesn't have the LUAS connectors. Is there an equivalent Evenflo that does have the LUAS (perhaps a step up from the SureRide)?

Yes it has lower anchors (UAS). Stored somewhere on the seat, but definitely there to be used.

Was going to multi quote your other post as well regarding the top tether situation. So many what-if factors cross my mind in the scenario you were asking about. All anecdotal since I'm not privy to crash testing or the engineering side of things, obviously, but what it comes down to is that I am not willing to deviate from what any manual says these days. Additionally we aren't talking about a situation where we need to "make do" because your vehicle is not ideal for the situation -- in those instances I nod and smile and then back away slowly

. Your van has everything you need, it's just a matter of figuring out seating configuration.

Can you push your captains chairs together? And did you try a B-Safe base on the middle seat?

MommyShannon · Mar 29, 2014

I think you would find that the tether's clip won't fit on the floor anchors anyway. It might just be my perception, but they seem wider to me. We have the 7 passenger version, so we also just pushed the one seat over to accommodate our 3rd child. I like the added space to kneel in by the door or even climb in if the weather is bad. I agree with trying the SureRide for 3 across.
The Frontier is very wide so if the Marathon is too wide, I suspect the Frontier is too. The Nautilus is similar. Only harnessed seats are approved for airplanes. No belt positioning boosters are approved for use on the plane. The Nautilus does convert to a backless, but it's bulkier than a lot of other backless boosters you can purchase when the time comes. The SureRide has a taller harness too so it will last longer in that mode.

Pixelated · Mar 30, 2014

Westerley said:
Soooo, by no means am I recommending that others use the floor anchors for tethering. And indeed, after further thought, its not what I want to do either. But does anyone have any hard information on the requirements 'proper' tethers are to be designed to?

You can read about the requirements for 'User-Ready Tether Anchorages' here, you want to find the full text of CMVSS 210.1 http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1038/FullText.html

If you find you want access to any of the Test Methods you need to request access from Transport Canada as they no longer post them online. If you want something quickly I have access already and would be happy to send you anything you need, PM me.

Westerley · Apr 1, 2014

canadiangie said:
Yes it has lower anchors (UAS). Stored somewhere on the seat, but definitely there to be used.

Sorry for the delay in responding - since I last posted we brought our twins home from the hospital...

Yes, I downloaded the manual for the SureRide, and sure enough it does have LUAS anchors.

canadiangie said:
Can you push your captains chairs together? And did you try a B-Safe base on the middle seat?

We can indeed push the captains chairs together, and I'm willing to do so if necessary; however, for us it would really be advantageous in certain circumstances if all three kids were in the middle row, and so I would really like to try and facilitate that as much as reasonably possible.

I did try the B-Safe base in the middle seat, but I'm not certain I got a proper fit. The manual says "The base is secure when it moves less than 2.5 cm (1 in) front-to-back or side-to-side at the vehicle belt path".

The base certainly moves much less than 1" at the back of the base (i.e. near the bight of the seat), so if that's what's meant by vehicle belt path, we're good. However, the front edge of the base moves side to side by about 1.5" - 2". This is what makes me uncertain that the fit is secure.

Is it ok for the front of the base to move that much?

Westerley · Apr 1, 2014

Chila88 said:
But I think what Angie is saying, and I 100% agree with her, is that as a tech we simply cannot recommend to a parent that they go against manufacturers directions, or use something in a way it hasn't been specifically tested for. Because we are making recommendations that impact the safety of a child's life, it would be entirely unwise.

Yes, I certainly understand!

Westerley · Apr 1, 2014

Pixelated said:
You can read about the requirements for 'User-Ready Tether Anchorages' here, you want to find the full text of CMVSS 210.1 http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1038/FullText.html

If you find you want access to any of the Test Methods you need to request access from Transport Canada as they no longer post them online. If you want something quickly I have access already and would be happy to send you anything you need, PM me.

Thank you! I also found this: Standard No. 225; Child restraint anchorage systems from the DOT in the US. If I do pursue the matter further, I'll contact you. Realistically however, I'm most likely going to try and make it work more conventionally/officially.

Westerley · Apr 1, 2014

Thank you all for your responses and help!

Earlier I posted a bit facetiously that I get a Clek Foonf. However, the more I look into it, it does seem to be a seat that would allow me to do what I would like:

its narrow, which has advantages wherever I put it in the Odyssey,
it seems to be the safest way to front-face my little girl,
people have travelled on airplanes with it (as seen elsewhere on this site)

I would always have the option of getting a SureRide for air travel if the Foonf proves to be too awkward for that...

Its not quite what I asked to start this thread, but does anyone have any thoughts on the Foonf in this context?

TechnoGranola · Apr 1, 2014

She would also fit in the Foonf rear-facing and at her age, she is safest rear facing.

MommyShannon · Apr 1, 2014

I think it'd be great to RF her longer, but isn't very tall for FF a tall child nearly as long as the Frontier. Also, the added features of the UAS will only be beneficial in the Captain's seats or up to the point she exceeds the UAS weight limit in the 3rd row (I believe it's still 40lbs in Canada).

Advice on replacing a Marathon with a combo/booster

Westerley

New member

Keeanh

Well-known member

Westerley

New member

canadiangie

New member

Chila88

New member

Westerley

New member

Westerley

New member

Westerley

New member

Chila88

New member

canadiangie

New member

MommyShannon

New member

Pixelated

Moderator - CPST Instructor

Westerley

New member

Westerley

New member

Westerley

New member

Westerley

New member

TechnoGranola

Forum Ambassador

MommyShannon

New member

Car-Seat.Org Facebook Group

Sponsors

Forum statistics