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  1. #1
    CPS Technician Kalinky's Avatar
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    Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    So we all know how much safer rear facing is.....will the laws ever change? Sorry if there have been posts about this already - I did a search but didn't come up with anything.....I just feel like when I try to tell people how much safer kids are to stay rear facing to the limits of the seat, they try to trump me with, "well the law says blah blah blah..." (I do send them the links to sites with proof that it's safer)

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  3. #2
    Car-Seat.Org Zealot skaterbabs's Avatar
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    maybe some day, but probably not any time soon.
    Rebekah Branch, CPST from May 2005 until June 2011
    Mom to CJ (7/96, seatbelt), Gregory (4/98, seatbelt), & Joyjoy (10/03, misc. booster seats)
    "That which you create in beauty and goodness and truth lives on."
    - Denis Waitley

  4. #3
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    I really don't think it will change until the majority of parents out here, understand that the 1 yr AND 20lbs is just an exception and not a rule. Many parents actaully think that they HAVE to turn them at that age adn weight. Some don't bother asking their peds about carseats, or when they should turn them. So many are ignorant to the fact that they have the option.

    Beth

  5. #4
    CPS Technician LimePink's Avatar
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betsyconnersmommy View Post
    I really don't think it will change until the majority of parents out here, understand that the 1 yr AND 20lbs is just an exception and not a rule. Many parents actaully think that they HAVE to turn them at that age adn weight. Some don't bother asking their peds about carseats, or when they should turn them. So many are ignorant to the fact that they have the option.

    Beth
    I think it's silly to ask the pedi for car seat advice personally! They study medicine, not car seat safety. Just my on that issue. A LOT of pedis will tell you to turn them around at 1 and don't recommend ERF!
    DD 3.5 yrs : 30lbs. 38in.
    RF in a MA/DC/BV/Scenera

  6. #5
    Senior Community Member veggiegirl228's Avatar
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    It would be great if they do change the laws. We can cross our fingers and hope that people wake up (including dr's) about the importance of RFing as long as possible but even with laws people still don't listen, it's soo sad
    Jennifer, SAHM to DD, 9.9 yrs old, 4'7", 73 lbs. Current ride is Safety 1st Incognito

  7. #6
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    My pedi looked at me crazy when she was going over the norm rules and came to the ff at 1yr and 20lbs and I said oh dd will rf until she mets the max of her seat limits. She just repeated herself and said that she didn't have to stay rf that long.


  8. #7
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    yeah....lots of pedis and parents think "making" their kid rear-face in the car seat is torture for a kid. Like they're doing them a big "favor" by turning them around at 1 yr of age. Not so! I wish the laws would change too.

  9. #8
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    Well, we can hope, but unfortunately, looking at history, it's going to take a long time for any real change, in some places they don't even have the 1yr stipulation, I have a friend that turned her 9m/o ffing, because she reached 20lbs, I sent her links, and told her over and over that she should leave her rfing, but to no avail. I'm hoping in the next two years they change the laws towards extended harnessing, and booster seats. (I've got my ways to convince DH on the rfing, but nothing else) Though he is starting to listen on the booster seat, I think.
    I got my BIL to agree to extended harnessing, but his DS is special needs (learning disability) and they sometimes ignore carseat laws altogether, if they feel it will make things easier.

  10. #9
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    Yeah, I really don't see the laws changing anytime soon either. The positive thing, is more and more parents are turning to techs to get their seats checked, and the availability of info online is making it easier for parents to find out the importance of rf'ing. The more parents start keeping their kids rf'ing, then hopefully it will become common practice even if it's not the law - and sometimes people assume common practice is the law.

    Realistically though, unless they brought in really high weight seats like Europe has, they couldn't enforce a rf'ing to 2yrs law because of kids who are obese or just heavy for their age, so they would have to switch it to an "OR" law which would be worse than 1 AND 20lbs unless they did something like 2 or 30lbs... But then you'd have 4yr olds potentially legally having to be kept rf'ing while some 1yr olds would be ff'ing. Rf'ing is safest, but I'm personally fine with a 3yr old ff'ing and don't think a law should force a parent to keep their 4yr old rf'ing even if it is safeST. There's also the issue of variance in rf'ing weight limits between manufacturers... And then if you had a 28lb 4yr old, they may be too tall for most of the convertible seats available too...

    Anyways, I think it's a good idea, but I think there's a lot of things that would have to be changed before a law could be put in place that enforced erf'ing.


    Quote Originally Posted by dd9736 View Post
    Well, we can hope, but unfortunately, looking at history, it's going to take a long time for any real change, in some places they don't even have the 1yr stipulation, I have a friend that turned her 9m/o ffing, because she reached 20lbs, I sent her links, and told her over and over that she should leave her rfing, but to no avail. I'm hoping in the next two years they change the laws towards extended harnessing, and booster seats. (I've got my ways to convince DH on the rfing, but nothing else) Though he is starting to listen on the booster seat, I think.
    There'll be a booster law in Alberta by the time your ds is that old, so no need to worry about that. One other thing - many seats have a 1yr age minimum on them to be used ff'ing, so I would check the user manual - she can be ticketed for improper use since her dd wouldn't be appropriately restrained for age/size.
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
    Jonas - 8yrs, 65lbs, Riding in an Oobr in each car.
    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


  11. #10
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    Question Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    Quote Originally Posted by VLsMom View Post
    yeah....lots of pedis and parents think "making" their kid rear-face in the car seat is torture for a kid. Like they're doing them a big "favor" by turning them around at 1 yr of age. Not so! I wish the laws would change too.
    IME, my kids have been easier to keep happy once they were FF. I imagine it's a YMMV thing.

    My biggest question (obviously I'm not fully convinced yet...) is "What about their legs in case of a crash?" Aren't they broken? Is that better than what would happen if FF'ing?? And don't kids get frustrated not being able to stretch their legs and also wouldn't that be bad for their circulation??

    Just wondering...

  12. #11
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    Quote Originally Posted by momefarley View Post
    IME, my kids have been easier to keep happy once they were FF. I imagine it's a YMMV thing.

    My biggest question (obviously I'm not fully convinced yet...) is "What about their legs in case of a crash?" Aren't they broken? Is that better than what would happen if FF'ing?? And don't kids get frustrated not being able to stretch their legs and also wouldn't that be bad for their circulation??

    Just wondering...
    Actually, my 4 year old was MUCH more comfortable RF. She would usually just cross her legs. She actually complains now that's she's FF because her legs just hang and she has to rest them on the actual car seat (not the MA) so her legs don't get "all tingly", as she says. I would MUCH prefer a broken leg, or even 2 for that matter over the injuries that could occur with having a younger child FF.
    Amy
    Mommy to Kaylie (12/15/02), Teagan (12/29/05) and Sean (12/8/09)

  13. #12
    Ambassador - CPS Technician CTPDMom's Avatar
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    I agree, I think my 2 yo is MORE comfy RF than FF as he sits indian style when RF. And RF he is better able to keep books, magazines (he gets a Sesame St one which he LOVES! LOL), his teddy bear on his lap. When he wants to stretch he puts his feet on up the back of the vehicle's seat...sometimes he rubs his bare feet on the seat back too, I think he likes the sensation as he can feel the 'bumps' in the fabric pattern through the pillow case I keep on there to keep it clean.

    I have to say, though, that I'm surprised he's been ok this long...I really thought he'd be clamoring to turn much earlier.

  14. #13
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    Quote Originally Posted by momefarley View Post
    My biggest question (obviously I'm not fully convinced yet...) is "What about their legs in case of a crash?" Aren't they broken? Is that better than what would happen if FF'ing?? And don't kids get frustrated not being able to stretch their legs and also wouldn't that be bad for their circulation??

    Just wondering...
    i think the answer to your first question should be pretty obvious. Leg injury vs spinal/head injury?

    and as for the stretching of the legs, kids tend to be more comfortable all curled up, and they can still stretch their legs UP against the seat back to straighten them out.

    I have heard just about every minor princess-and-the-pea complaint in the car from shirts sitting wrong, diapers bothering her, sun in her eyes.. never once has she complained about her legs (and trust me, she would.)

  15. #14
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    Quote Originally Posted by amy919 View Post
    Actually, my 4 year old was MUCH more comfortable RF. She would usually just cross her legs. She actually complains now that's she's FF because her legs just hang and she has to rest them on the actual car seat (not the MA) so her legs don't get "all tingly", as she says. I would MUCH prefer a broken leg, or even 2 for that matter over the injuries that could occur with having a younger child FF.

    I agree, I would MUCH rather have to deal with broken legs than have my children have neck and spinal injuries that will paralyze or kill them.
    Plus, from what I understand there have been no reported cases of broken legs from RF (I'll go find the quote).

    My 3 yo dd LOVES RF!

    It makes me kind of peeved though because the tech that I had check my seat told me that my daughter could ff if I wanted her to.
    I told her no, dd is only 28 lbs, her seat goes to 33.
    Of all people she should be ENCOURAGING RF!!! Luckily I know better. But what's going to happen with the new parent who knows NOTHING about car seats. (Like me, when ds turned one year, I flipped him around ff in his shield car seat. It scares me that I knew SO little)

    This same tech kept asking for a metal locking clip for my dd's Britax Wizard. I literally had to show her in the manual that they were built in (she didn't believe me). SIGH....

    Sadly she's the only tech in our area...
    Last edited by linzogonzerelli; 08-30-2007 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Mixed up RF and FF (I corrected it :) )

  16. #15
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    Here's where I saw it:
    http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/StayRearFacing.aspx

    Under the subject heading (scroll down the page) "Won't my child be uncomfortable? Where do his legs go?"
    "Many parents have the misconception that children are uncomfortable or at risk for leg injury by having their legs up on the vehicle seat or bent when kept rear-facing. These concepts are completely incorrect. First, children are more flexible than adults so what we perceive as uncomfortable is not for children. Think about how your child sits in everyday play. Do they sit with their legs straight out in front of them? When they sit on the couch, do they purposely sit so their legs dangle out over the edge? No. In real, everyday life, toddlers and preschoolers CHOSE to sit with their legs folded up - that IS comfort to them.

    Second, there is not a single documented case of children's legs, hips, etc. breaking or being injured in a crash due to longer rear-facing. There are plenty of cases of head and neck injury in forward-facing children that could have been prevented if the child had remained rear-facing. However, even if a leg or hip were broken or injured, it can be fixed. A damaged spinal cord (from forward-facing too soon) cannot be repaired and subjects the child to lifelong disability or death."

  17. #16
    Admin - CPS Technician joolsplus3's Avatar
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    Quote Originally Posted by momefarley View Post
    IME, my kids have been easier to keep happy once they were FF. I imagine it's a YMMV thing.

    My biggest question (obviously I'm not fully convinced yet...) is "What about their legs in case of a crash?" Aren't they broken? Is that better than what would happen if FF'ing?? And don't kids get frustrated not being able to stretch their legs and also wouldn't that be bad for their circulation??

    Just wondering...
    My kids are happier when I let them run in the street and eat ice cream for dinner...but it's not good for them, so I don't allow it. Rearfacing is SO MUCH SAFER than forward facing, I dread the day my last child can't RF anymore (my middle one fit till 4.5 rearfacing and she loved it)
    Julie
    CPST since 2003, pu"R"ple since 2008, three kids growing too fast since 1997, 1999 and 2006

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good

  18. #17
    CPS Technician CRS's Avatar
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    Quote Originally Posted by joolsplus3 View Post
    My kids are happier when I let them run in the street and eat ice cream for dinner...but it's not good for them
    It's not?..... shoot..... LOL



    One thing I've found quite "funny" especially now I have my 2 year old RF is how concerned people are for his ENTERTAINMENT! LOL. As in, wont he get bored? Where's he gonna look? Doesn't he get bored looking at the back seat? Ummm, I have windows in my car and there is such a thing as toys
    Bonnie, Mum to a (38lb) 3 year old rear-facing in a Brio Zento (Black)
    and a (40lb) 4 1/2 year old in a Booster in New Zealand.

  19. #18
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LimePink View Post
    I think it's silly to ask the pedi for car seat advice personally! They study medicine, not car seat safety. Just my on that issue. A LOT of pedis will tell you to turn them around at 1 and don't recommend ERF!
    yeah that ^^^.
    Two girls, 7 and 6. Trek Mountain, Specialized Hotrock, Soma Buena Vista, Bike Friday tandem, and multiple other bikes. Oh, and a Mazda5.

  20. #19
    Carseat Crazy laurenrachey's Avatar
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    I remember a conversation I had with a woman when Caleb was about 11 months. She said "Oh he'll be so much happier when you can turn him around in a month! And if he's not quite 20lbs, it is okay. My daughter was only 18 pounds and we got 'special permission' from our pediatrician to go ahead and turn her around, and it helped soooo much." First of all, who says a pedi can change the law! I mean it isn't like a police officer is going to carry around a pediatric scale, but still... So I responded "Oh he's perfectly happy and will be rear facing until his carseat limits" with a smile. She launched into this uncomfortable spill about how we all have to make decisions as parents blah blah blah. Not anything negative, but like she suddenly felt that maybe she shouldn't have turned her daughter around before 20lbs and needed to justify it. In a nice, but awkward tone. By the way, DS was like 20.2lbs at his one year, he would have barely made the cut, depending on what he was wearing and when he had eaten last!

    But I will say, if it weren't for the internet, I probably would have turned him. I thought that was what I was supposed to do. According to the law. People on my BabyCenter board started discussing it, and my carseat obsession began....

    PS I've also never understood people saying 'S/he will be so much happier" Why? How do they know? They've never been forward facing before. They shouldn't know anything different! By the time he reached a year, he could lean up slightly and see out the window just fine. He actually has a pretty good view out the front window via his mirror (a soft one that I feel is safe to use).
    Rachel & Caleb 3.31.05 37 lbs FF in an FPSVD and/or a Regent

    http://www.crumbsinmycouch.com

  21. #20
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    Re: Will the laws ever change on rear facing?

    It is hard to regulate things that are really difficult for families to implement. While I'm glad DD is still rearfacing, she is about to outgrow her Roundabout by height even though she is only 26# and not even near the RF weight limit for the seat. We drive 3 vehicles that I cannot fit a larger seat rearfacing, it is theoretically possible when I am driving although I am uncomfortable driving close to the steering wheel, but my husband is 6'4" and he really cannot drive safely with the drivers seat pulled all the way forward. We have a F150 '98, Subaru Outback '97, and RAV4 '06, and have two Roundabouts, a Marathon and a Decathalon btw.

    So you want to legislate what kind of vehicle every family can drive? How tall parents are allowed to be? Should we make it mandatory that every parent drive a late model minivan?

    No, we work with the laws on the books, enforce MIMINUM safety limits. We work to educate pediatricians - I've asked 3 pediatricians about carseats and the were all clueless even thought each had a child the same age as my own. We need to better publicize inspection services - or for that matter make inspection available period since many rural lower income areas have NO inspection services. We need to educate sellers of carseats - every time I go to Babies R Us I get some little tidbit of inaccurate and very unsafe information. Lots of things to do to imporve vehicle safety for children without legislating every aspect of our lives. Changing RF regulations would put undue burden on families, and undue burden on law enforcement. IMHO.

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