What's safer: driver outboard FF Regent or passenger outboard RF Scenera for a 3.5yo 32lbs 39"?

lvmchld · Mar 31, 2007

We have a choice:

1. Driver-side outboard forward-facing Britax Regent, installed as if it was a part of the car, with a long belt path, a recline bar, a top tether and a locking clip
or
2. Passenger-side outboard rear-facing Scenera, with a "swim noodle" or a rolled-up towel (which?) under the bottom front of the car seat to keep it fully reclined, since the vehicle seat really slopes, with a top tether and a locking clip, not as tight as #1.

She's 3.5 years old, 32 lbs, 39", the second slot from the bottom in the Regent, the second slot from the top in the Scenera RF, the top slot in the Scenera FF. The car is Toyota Corolla 1993 4-door sedan.

Which position is safer for her, please?
Thank you very much!

joolsplus3 · Mar 31, 2007

No matter how tight the FF seat is, there's still going to be a tremendous force on her neck in that seat compared to RF, and an RF seat is, statistically, 4 times safer in a side crash (given the HUGE misuse rate, I"m thinking your kid in a good Regent install is better than 99% of kids in installed-wrong seats)... Just a funny question...are you allowed to use the second to top slot RF in the Scenera?

Victorious4 · Mar 31, 2007

"Best" is whichever provides the safest installation (less than 1" movement at he belt path) & can most reliably be used correctly at all times -- other than that: RF is safer than FF for all types of crashes.... However, at this age I wouldn't worry as much about spinal injury as I would for kids under 2 yrs old & would personally prefer the Regent for it's stronger shell design + energy absorbing foam

rlsadc · Mar 31, 2007

WAIT you cant RF tether a scenara

lvmchld · Mar 31, 2007

Thank you for both replies.
joolsplus3: "are you allowed to use the second to top slot RF in the Scenera?"
I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. Why wouldn't I be? That's the "right under her shoulders" height RF, so that's why I put the harness there.
So, would you choose the rf Scenera, then?

papooses: Regent, then, right? It is amazingly tight! And, and I was really disappointed in the Scenera when I tried to install it tonight, and found out I needed a "noodle" or something to keep it reclined in the rf position. That can't make it safer (a noodle), can it?

lvmchld · Mar 31, 2007

rlsadc: You're absolutely right! Sorry. I was thinking about FF...
No, it wouldn't be top-tethered in RF.

Victorious4 · Mar 31, 2007

The noodle doesn't necessarily means it's a less safe install (although after infancy a child does not need the 45 degree recline: anywhere between 30-45 would be safe) -- but, I personally would choose the Regent for an outboard install with a child more than 3 years old unless I could get the RF seat installed correctly in the center instead.... The Scenera should install nicely in the center of your vehicle & that would be the safest overall

Depending on what the manual says about using the 2nd highest harness slots. It makes intuitive sense that you should be able to use these RF since they'd be at or below the shoulders, but we must always refer to the manual!

lvmchld · Mar 31, 2007

papooses: Yes, of course, I have read the manual cover-to-cover. It doesn't say anything special about second-to-highest slots. It just says to make sure that "the harness slot must be even with or just below the shoulders" for rear-facing.

Yes, the center rear seat, rear-facing would be the safest... The only question I have is, with just the lap seat belt there, and a very long buckle stalk, I'd have to twist it 3 times, right? I wonder if I would be able to install a locking clip then (the buckle was right on the plastic side of the car seat when I tried it tonight - is that safe?)? I have ELR vehicle belts, so I need locking clips everywhere in the back, right?

I'd have to take the Regent out

(and it is so nice and tight now) to check the Scenera in the center...

Thank you.

wondering1 · Mar 31, 2007

You have an ELR lap seat belt? So the lap belt in the rear center retracts into the seat when not in use? Or does the lap only belt just lay there on the seat waiting for someone to use it?

I didn't understand ELR until recently. I did have one once but that was a 1988 Dodge. The 1994 Toyota Camry has a regular lap belt that just sits there on the seat waiting for someone to use it rather than retracting into the seat. The Regent is rock solid after I did two twists of the female belt stalk. Without the twists it was solid but the buckle was coming into the Regent's seating area.

lvmchld · Mar 31, 2007

wondering1: I thought I had ELR belts but maybe it was only the lap-shoulder belts??? Yes, the lap belt in the center just sits there on the seat; it does not retract at all. So, it's not ELR? I'm confused...

wondering1 · Apr 1, 2007

You are in luck! You can forward face the Regent in the back center position. ELR's always retract...so that lap-only belt that just sits on the seat will install the Regent beautifully perhaps with a twist or three of the female belt stalk.

wondering1 · Apr 1, 2007

Have you had a rear tether point installed yet? It is better to get that even before the 50 pound requirement!

wondering1 · Apr 1, 2007

The rear facing Scenara will not need a locking clip either for your rear center lap belt only install. Try again without it to see if you can get it in snug.

lvmchld · Apr 1, 2007

wondering1: thanks a lot for your posts.

So, I can really install the Regent in the middle in the back, with just the lap belt and no locking clip? I do have a weld nut there, in the center, so I could have a top tether anchor installed in the rear center seat position. That would be very important for a Regent. Would that be safer than an outboard with long belt path (very tight)?

And, just to summarize, the RF Scenera in the center does not need a locking clip at all? What about tethering it down to an unmovable part on the floor by the front seats? I did that with her RF Roundabout, according to the manual, before.

rlsadc · Apr 1, 2007

once again, you can NOT tether a RFing Scenera...not to anything, not ever. The only seats that RF tether are the MA/DC/BV and the RN.

I think that I would go ahead and use the Regent, unless you can a get a tech to install your Scenera. At 32 lbs ahe only has 3 lbs left anyway (that is typically a 3 pounds I would encourage you to take advantage of) but if you cant get a good install (less than one 1 of movement at the belt path) then I would definately not have a problem FFing her.

joolsplus3 · Apr 1, 2007

lvmchld said:
wondering1: thanks a lot for your posts.
So, I can really install the Regent in the middle in the back, with just the lap belt and no locking clip? I do have a weld nut there, in the center, so I could have a top tether anchor installed in the rear center seat position. That would be very important for a Regent. Would that be safer than an outboard with long belt path (very tight)?

And, just to summarize, the RF Scenera in the center does not need a locking clip at all? What about tethering it down to an unmovable part on the floor by the front seats? I did that with her RF Roundabout, according to the manual, before.

It's a manual lapbelt (like an airplane seatbelt) in the middle? I'd just put the Scenera there, twist the female end/buckle stalk down if you need to get the latchplate out of the belt path. A noodle doesn't decrease safety, it's been tested, just don't lie her down flatter than 45 degrees and you're fine. Absolutely no tethers on anything rearfacing besides a Britax or Radian...other seats have been tested that way, and the neckloads on the dummy increase dramatically, so they don't recommend it.

lvmchld · Apr 1, 2007

rlsadc: got it, no tethering a rf scenera. Thank you! I didn't know only those 4 seats could be tethered rf...
Yes, I realize she's ok ff, but, since I got that Scenera for travel anyway, it'd be a shame to use it just for one week, especially if it could make her safer in the car. I don't care if it's just one month or one year or one week... She'd be SAFER rf in the Scenera, right? That's all that matters to me. And, sometimes, depending on the scale, I guess, she weighs about 30-31 lbs! So, it might take her some time to gain the 3-5 lbs to 35 lbs which is the maximum weight limit for rf Scenera. Is it 35 lbs with all the clothes on, though? The manual says "when the child weighs between 5 and 35 lbs."
If I could only install it as tight as the Regent...

joolsplus3: got it, no tethers rf. Thank you! Only Britax or Radian were tested that way.
Yes, I guess it's a manual lap belt, it just sits there on the seat, like on an airplane. I'll put the Scenera rf there, and twist that female belt a lot (it's soooo loooong...

), and a noodle under the front of the carseat, until the line on the car seat is level with the ground, and NO LOCKING CLIP, right???
And, just to make sure I understand you correctly,
"the neckloads on the dummy increase dramatically, so they don't recommend it." for RF TETHERED other seats, like SCENERA, right?

Thank you both very much for your time and patience with me!

wondering1 · Apr 2, 2007

You can twist the female belt up to three full twists to get a better install. No locking clip is needed with a manual seat belt (one that lays there on the seat without retracting). On the seats that come with rear facing tether, like the Britax and the Radian, the safety level goes UP with the rear facing tether. For other seats that do not come with a rear facing tether, the crash tests showed detriment from the rear facing tether.

lvmchld · Apr 2, 2007

wondering1: Thank you very much.

That's crystal-clear.

Victorious4 · Apr 2, 2007

Have you looked up your local techs?

What's safer: driver outboard FF Regent or passenger outboard RF Scenera for a 3.5yo 32lbs 39"?

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