We tried out FF....

We have been having so many problems with my 2 1/2yr old in the car. He's making every trip so stressful. He is constantly hitting, kicking, scratching his poor brothers on either side of him, we tried using those pop up things in between the seats and he just pulled them out or pushed on them and it still hit them. Everytime we went to get in the car he would jump into his brothers nautilus and buckle up...he wanted so bad to ride FF. It's getting to the point where he's such a distraction with them all screaming and crying because they are getting hurt from him that I feel it might be even more dangerous that way. So today we had to move the seats around from taking one out and we decided to try the Radian FF just for today to see how he did. We were only going to target and back, so just about 2mi each way..which I know things usually happen close to home but yeah.

Well he was an angel, he was soooo thrilled to be forward facing, he did sit with his feet all pulled up which I thought was kinda funny lol. But since the radian is so low profile he can't even reach his brother in the nautilus next to him. It was so much nicer to be able to control him if he were to act up, with the radian being so tall I can't exactly reach over it to him, they are 3 across in an audi a6, can't reach around the side from the front seat, there was really nothing we could do to stop him.

Now I know he SHOULD be RF still, he's only about 27lbs fully dressed, he's 2 1/2 exactly as of tomorrow. I know of the 5x safer from 12-24mo but really is it bad to have him FF with the situation? I was so distracted by him acting up on the way to baseball on Thurs, it was raining and I almost rear ended someone and almost ran a stop sign Am I wrong to put him FF?

I think you're asking more of a parental question than a safety question, no?

From a safety standpoint, a two year old in a correctly installed forward facing seat with top tether in use is certainly safer than most. I would not recommend forward facing at this age, though. Ideally, he would be rear facing.

From a parental perspective, I know that I don't allow my children's unacceptable behavior to determine my safety practices.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that while I don't think you're doing something 'wrong', it is definitely not something I would do from either perspective. :twocents:

Thanks

Yeah I understand what you're saying about them not allowing you to change your safety practices. I know he's 2 1/2 but it seems like he just doesn't understand, he isn't at the same level our other 2 were at this age and just telling him not to do something does not work, time out isn't working, we don't spank, it's like he just doesn't get it. He thinks it's a game, though sometimes he does it when he's mad, usually he thinks he's playing and he is just not "getting it". He has been getting sooo much better in other areas, but it seems the car thing is just not working. And his seat only works in the middle so he has access to both of them.

I'm not trying to make excuses just to explain it better, I feel like we've tried everything. I asked for advice on here which is where I got the pop up thing idea, but it just didn't work for him. I've tried yelling at him to stop...which I don't like but I was desperate and so frustrated...but again didn't stop. Not going anywhere to avoid it doesn't work because we do have to leave the house at times and really we aren't out much, we are out to take them to baseball and then errands like grocery shopping we have to do, most of the week we are home.

I just feel like I'm out of ideas, I don't know what else to do besides turn him around to stop the others from getting hurt or us distracted.

What would a personal limit for turning them? His seat RF to 45lbs and I know most would say to the limits...but in reality, he doesn't grow...he's very small for his age and barely grows, he's been the same height and weight for months and months. He probably would never hit the limits lol.

Can you move him outboard, and 'secure' a single popup in some way? We jammed the top to a booster in between the seats for a while until our kids outgrew this behavior. It was firmly enough wedged that the instigator was unable to move it.

We do not spank either.

Looking at your siggy, are you talking about Hayden? Are your 2 oldest FF? If you middle child is ERF, I would put them next to each other, with the oldest on the other side of the middle child. My 31 month old was thrilled when I turned her RF again, I'm sorry he's not liking it. Have you tried a DVD player?

Oh yeah I need to update my siggy sorry....Casen is currently in the Nautilus and Landon in a HBB. Then Hayden was RF in the radian, we no longer have the marathon.

The radian won't work outboard, we've tried it a few times but it just won't work, the booster will not fit at all in the middle, and if we put the Nautilus in the middle they all don't install correctly, so middle for RF is the only way it works. We do have it outboard for FF right now, Nautilus in the middle, HBB on other side.

I just wanted to say hugs to you, that's a tough situation. I don't have any real suggestions, I wish I did. It's hard when you're trying to do your best.

Thank you

Does this seat come in highback form? Didn't want to start another thread to ask
http://evenflo.com/product.aspx?id=231&pfid=1680

I'm here stressing about whether or not to flip my 2 1/2yr old FF due to everything I've said here, and probably stuff I missed. But my husband's boss just came by and his son who is 4mo younger than mine was playing and I commented on how I would have thought he was younger because he's about the same size as my son and usually kids around his age are much bigger because he's quite small. And he said "yeah he's a little small for his age" then he gets ready to leave and I only saw the side, so can't say for sure if it was backless or high back but it was def that booster I posted in that color and that's what he put him in

No, the AMP is a backless-only booster.

Yeah my DH just told me when he came in that it is a backless booster I had to go inside or I would have said something not so nice, so now I have to figure out a way to get my DH to say something. This kid was so small, he was just the tinyest bit taller than my son so I'd say 34in and def no more than 30lbs, he seemed a bit chubbier than my 26lb son. Not only that though he is only 2yrs 2mo old! It kills me especially because he has money, there is no excuse, it's not like they can't afford anything more than a backless...though I know there are inexpensive seats out there. I'm tempted next time just to save him the "trouble" so hopefully he'll actually use it just buying a scenera for him myself so atleast he's harnessed. I'm going to get my DH to talk to him about it though, they are pretty close so maybe he'll listen

Just wanted to say BTDT on the second situation, Momma. I've been crawling in the back of my vehicle loading my 3yo into his RFing Radian while a friend is further down the driveway loading her child, six months younger and ten pounds lighter, into a backless. It makes me nauseous if I think about it too long.

Good luck getting him to use a harness. Hopefully he'll listen to your DH.

As far as your DS, have you tried leaving ten minutes early and pulling over every.time. he acts up? Can you give him a set of car toys, which get taken away one at a time if he hurts his brothers? I know the most helpful thing would be to ignore his behaviour, but if he's hurting his brothers, obviously they're going to react, so that's hard to do. Do you take his shoes off in the car? If not, maybe start, that way if he kicks it doesn't hurt so much.

I wouldn't turn my 2.5yo, but I'm not sure what else I would do, either. Get mean with the offender, lol. A 2.5yo FFing isn't the end of the world... but I guess I would just try other avenues, one at a time, until either something clicked or he outgrew the phase. Not much help, I know... I'm sorry.

I turned my twins FF at 2.5 when one of them was nearing the limits on their DCs. The other, is/was the same size as your ds. But I knew we'd have issues with one rf and one ff, so I put them both FF. Now, at 2yrs 9mo...the littler twin is rf'ing again. He wanted to 'ride backwards' like the baby....so I jumped at the chance to have him rf'ing again. He did not protest one bit! I think he even liked it.

He's FF in our other vehicles out of necessity. I do not feel as if he's unsafe in these seats by being FF at this age/stage of development.

It's extremely hard to advise, because sometimes, we find ourselves doing stuff we never would have imagined when presented with a child we never could have imagined.

I have the same issue with my 3 year old. I'm lucky that I have a lot of seats to work with and can move the middle row forward and backward. I have considered ffing, but am trying other things first.

I def don't want to seem like I'm putting down everyone's ideas, but I've seriously tried everything The only thing I haven't tried is the pulling over each time, but really he doesn't/wouldn't care. He's just so stubborn. There are times I actually think something is not right with him, he is a million times harder to deal with than my other 2 combined, it's like nothing gets through to him.

We have tried giving him toys in the car...he uses them as weapons, he'll throw them at them, he's thrown them over his head up to the front. One thing that kind of worked was his paci, but now that doesn't matter usually within minutes of him being in the car he throws it up in the window behind in front of him...so behind us, then screams and cries about it being there. We've explained over and over it's because he threw it and if he didn't throw it he would still have it...doesn't matter, it's seriously like he just doesn't understand. I don't get it, he's so smart in so many other ways but when it comes to discipline it's just like he does not get it. I really think pulling over would be a total game for him...he's just like that. He sees it gets a reaction he has to do it...which is why with most things we do ignore the behavior unless it's dangerous or something he really can not be doing..but this we can't ignore because his brothers get hurt. He takes off his shoes within minutes of being in the car so that helps, they aren't getting hurt as bad but he still kicks hard so barefoot or not they get hurt. He also reaches over and scratches them.

He probably sounds like an evil child I don't understand why he does these things, he adores his brothers and he's usually soooo sweet, but there are just times he's like this and it's almost everytime we're in the car. Someone suggested maybe he's jealous he's RF but I really don't think it could be that, yes he wants to ride in his brothers FF seat but I think it's just because it's his brothers. He did go FF for a short time due to the seats we had before and he was so happy to be back RF when we flipped him back.

It sounds to me like a lot of the places you go might be a little boring for him. Perhaps you should take a few trips to a park or playplace. The first time, just go no matter what. Then maybe take a trip where you tell him before hand that you are going to play, but if he's mean to his brothers, he won't get to go. Then head out and if he starts hitting and kicking, go back home and tell him why. I'd also tell the bigger boys to try really hard to ignore him. Which I know is difficult when you're being hurt. But if he doesn't get a reaction, he may lose interest. I'd encourage you to ignore him, too. Also, maybe some kind of sticker chart might work. Though that seems a little harder to make happen. Maybe put him in the car and drive down the driveway and back and give him a sticker and then lengthen the ride. I don't know, this is just a thought. I hear what you are saying about how difficult this must be, but I have to agree with Maedze that behavior does not determine safety. Actually, poor behavior determines very little here, because then we just have a ton of poor behavior because it gets what they want. If he were already FFing, would you move him to a booster so he would behave? If he hit and kicked his brothers, would you let him run in the street? Just some things to think about. In the end, only you can really decide what is best and safest for your family and children. And this is a tough spot to be in.

Just wanted to say that it sounds like a really tough situation. Like, really really tough. I feel for you.

I second the suggestion of planning a fun outing and taking him back home if he doesn't behave in the car. We had to do that for awhile when my DD was younger and would unbuckle or push her chest clip down all the time.

Just plan for him not behaving. So have your DH or a neighbor or someone available at home, tell the kids you are going to the fun place and what will happen if they don't behave in the car, and then follow through. If you end up bringing him home, make sure that he has to sit in his room or do some other non-fun thing so its not "yay I misbehaved now I get to do play-doh with the babysitter" or whatever the case may be.

We do this with my DS who's three and a half when he chooses not to behave while we are out. When we get home he goes straight to bed and the other kids get to watch a movie. So far it works pretty good. :twocents:

I can't be the only one who doesn't think this is terrible?? It is not as if the OP turned a 12 month old FFing, He is 2.5 and while it is not ideal, this seems like a decent-enough solution, if she truly has tried everything.
OP, I agree 100% that the behavior in the car while rearfacing would interfere with you driving safely. I don't like to have my older two next to each other because they begin arguing over the dumbest things and even though it doesn't escalate into something physical, it is enough to divert my attention from driving safely and would put all of us at more of a risk of getting into an accident.

So, on the other side of things...I think you need to do whatever works best for your family! If he was 18 months old and you were asking, I'd say definitely keep him rf but you have kept him rearfacing longer than the majority of people and made it well past age 2!!! While it'd be best to keep him rf until he hit at least 30lbs, or better yet to the limits of the seat, you made it to 2.5 and he's still going to be properly harnessed when he's ff. If you feel confident that you tried everything else, do what's best for your family even if that means turning him.

I hate how some people make it sound like 2.5 isn't "good enough"....it's AWESOME that you kept him rearfacing until 2.5! People should be praised for rf that long, not be given a guilt trip because they're considering forward-facing after 2.5. This is why so many people that visit these boards think we're all crazy. Yes rf to the limits of the seats is ideal, but keeping your kid rf to 2.5yrs is AWESOME!