Why not a Booster?

[Unregistered]

Why are so many people against boosters?

If the weight limit starts at 30lbs why do people say 'no'? Does this mean that the makers of carseats are wrong?

My son is soon to outgrow his carseat (32lbs, 3 1/2). I really cant dish out 200 dollars on a new Radian, or any of the really expensive seats ive read so much about. Ive got more kids, and unless I can spend 200 dollars for a seat.

I just want to know why boosters are not recommended, and why people are going against the weight requirements provided by the manufacturers. Dont they do crash testing? If they put a 30lb minimum on a booster it must be safe for a 30lb kid, or no?

 

[Lea_Ontario]

A 30-lb child can be a huge range of ages, unfortunately. So you cannot say that all 30-lb children will be safe in a booster.

A 30-lb 4 yr old ? Sure - IF they have the maturity and impulse control to sit still and remain in proper position in the booster at all times.

A 30-lb 1 yr old ? No - they have no business being in a booster.

As for what is said around here - it's mostly to the tune of pointing out that staying in a 5-point harness is SAFER than a booster, not that boosters are inherently unsafe.


That said - I'm in Canada - and boosters here have a 40lb AND 4-yr minimum limit.

 

[popsicle]

Most kids aren't mature enough to sit in a booster at 3 1/2. In order for the lap/shoulder belt to do their job, the child needs to be able to sit up straight and keep the lap belt across their hips and the shoulder belt positioned properly for the entire trip. Most 3 year olds will lean forward, play with the shoulder belt, even put the belt behind their back. A crash test dummy doesn't do these things.

No one here is against booster seats, just against them for kids who are too young/immature to use them correctly.

 

[Mommy2Marcus]

It's not just the weight, alot of it is maturity. There is really no way a 3 year old has the maturity to sit properly in a booster seat for the entire ride everytime. The other reason is b/c they still really are not big enough for there body to be properly postioned in a booster seat. It most of the time puts the belt accross their abdoman & then the force from the crash can cause internal injuries. Here are a few videos showing WHY small children should stay harnessed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2LFo8vVi04&mode=related&search

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2kO8AxKbrM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G59s3PjcntQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azgBhZfcqaQ&feature=related

There are more, but these are the ones that I think show why. There are several seats that would keep him harnessed for quite a long while for $150 & under. If you have tall headrests or seat backs then the Safety 1st Apex 65 would work, if not then I would go with the Graco Nautilus. Also you have younger children to pass the seat down to so you would get the full use out of the seat & not be wasting money! We really do not reccomend a booster for children under 5-6!

 

[mish]

The reason I say no to a 30 pound child in a booster is that they are often not mature enough. They won't sit still. If you get in a wreck, you don't want them leaning over. Some children are mature enough at 30 pounds. I always tell parents to do a couple of test drives before they commit to full time booster use. Drive around and see how the child sits. Another thing to consider is sleeping. If your child often sleeps in the car, a booster might not be your best option. When they fall asleep, they lean over. Not a good thing.

What seat is your child growing out of? Some seats are grown out of earlier than others. Depending on your budget, there are seats we can recommend for under $200.00. I certainly understand not being able to spend that much.

If you do decide to go with a booster, make sure you get a high back. Kids that small are definitely not ready for a backless.

Your last question was isn't a seat rated from 30 pounds good if the manufacturer said it was? Manufacturers crash test their seats being used properly. The test dummy is sitting up and fits in the seat well. A young child might not quite fit in the seat and they might be leaning over at the time of the crash.

 

[joolsplus3]

The seat's tested with a 34 pound '3 yo' dummy, I don't even know why they say it's good for 30lbs when there's no such thing as a 30lb dummy . Anyway, the dummy sits still. Most of us have NOT found that our 3.5 year olds are anywhere near capable of sitting still with the seatbelt always properly positioned, especially when they fall asleep and sideways right out of their booster (I had to learn the hard way, 7 years ago when there weren't any other options for my own kiddo). And since they can't sit still, and their heads are still proportionately large compared to their bodies, and their spinal bones aren't fully fused, they DO suffer a higher rate of head injury than kids younger than about age 5.
How about $59 for an Evenflo Chase on sale that has much taller top slots (I'm assuming your seat has low slots? Your kiddo is well below the 40lb weight limit for even inexpensive seats), or $109 for a Cosco Apex from www.albeebaby.com that has tall top slots and a 65 pound weight limit? Or the Graco Nautilus is $150, has VERY tall top slots (harness up to age 8 in some cases, if you want to that long), and then actually becomes an excellent booster (the Chase and Apex aren't that great as boosters, they are great for harnessing, though, just lacking good Side Impact Protection and don't keep the lapbelt low on the thighs where it should be).

 

[LISmama810]

The previous posters have covered it. It's more a matter of maturity than just weight.

You don't have to spend $200 on a HWH seat. The Nautilus is $150 and will convert into a highback and backless booster, so you're basically getting three seats in one. The Apex is about $120 (I think?) and also converts into a booster.

Is that more expensive than buying a $30 HBB or a $15 backless? Sure. But if there's any way you can afford it, it will provide a great deal more protection.

ETA: I forgot about the Chase, mentioned by the PP. Also a good choice, and not much more expensive than a booster.

 

[BookMama]

Most of us have NOT found that our 3.5 year olds are anywhere near capable of sitting still with the seatbelt always properly positioned, especially when they fall asleep and sideways right out of their booster

Heck, sometimes my 7YO has trouble sitting still/sitting up straight when he rides in a booster!

 

[joolsplus3]

Heck, sometimes my 7YO has trouble sitting still/sitting up straight when he rides in a booster!

Uh, yeah, I still spend a good deal of time reminding both my older kids to sit in theirs, they just don't fit in harnesses anymore

 

[BW1426]

Everyone has covered why it's not a great idea for 3.5 year olds to be in a booster.
I just wanted to chime in and say...
The Nautilus would be a fabulous seat for you. It harnesses to 65 lbs and has nice tall top slots and then becomes a high back booster and then a backless booster. If you sign up for Windows Live Cash back program you can get it for 149.95 and then get a 25% cash back rebate.

Here's the link http://search.live.com/cashback/products/offerings/1080/11601750

 

[Peony]

Heck, sometimes my 7YO has trouble sitting still/sitting up straight when he rides in a booster!

Yep. My 5.5y can not sit still in a booster seat. We use one very rarely for short trips but she is not mature enough by any means to use one full time safely.

 

[tanyaandallie]

I 100% agree that you do NOT have to spend $200+ dollars on a seat, esp if your child is not anywhere near 40 lbs at 3.5. The cheapest option is the Evenflo Chase. It would be a great option if your child has room to grow in it.

 

[bethng]

Yep. My 5.5y can not sit still in a booster seat. We use one very rarely for short trips but she is not mature enough by any means to use one full time safely.

My 7yr old dd is not mature enough for a booster. Thus she is in a Regent. And she will probably fit for about 2 more years. My plan is to keep her there until she no longer fits. THEN she can ride in a booster.

 

[Kat_Momof3]

I must concur. And there are more and more seats that harness over 40lbs that are not as expensive as the 200-300 dollar britax ones that used to be all we could get.

if a child stays still, there is still the risk of kids under 5 submarining out from under the harness (meaning they fly out, feet first), which can also cause deadly injuries from the lapbelt, even in a minor crash.


the simple fact is that most children under 5 (especially under 4) don't sit still in boosters. The seatbelt allows too much freedom of movement and they don't have the impulse control.

Add onto that the facts that their spine isn't hard until age 6 and their heads are so much heavier compared to their bodies than adults until about age 6 that it just makes sense to keep kids harnesses longer.

for those who can't afford more than 150 dollars, we recommend the Nautilus, the Cosco Apex (but this one requires a headrest to support ITS headrest, as its headrest is not reinforced), and the Evenflo Triumph Advance.

for under 200 dollars (but more than 150), there is the Radian 65 and the Evenflo truefit

now, if the under 150 dollars is just simply still too much, there is the ride safer vest for 99 dollars, but it can be annoying to use every day.

If you are on ANY type of assistance, you would qualify for a seat from the kyledavidmiller foundation, but only if your child is 40lbs... meaning, they have outgrown a 40lb limit seat.

 

[Judi]

The Apex is now $110.

 

[Adventuredad]

I'm of the opinion, and so are leading experts, that belt positioning boosters are as safe or safer than harnessed seats for older kids but I know people here disagree with this. Important to remember is that kids should not be too young when starting to use boosters. Sticking a 2 year old in a booster is beyond stupid but many still do it.

Also important to remember is that both harnessed seats and boosters are safe. Any safety difference between the two is likely to be relatively small unless the booster is used with a child way too young.

Age is more important than size IMHO since the problem is body development and maturity of sitting still. As for the Youtube videos, I think they are very misleading. Perhaps not to the many gurus on this board but to the normal person. The fact that kids sit so tightly restrained in harnessed seats are good but also a huge problem since all the force is absorbed by the neck. But people don't understand this and believe it's a fantastic feature.

The fact that kids have a proportionally larger head is more of a problem in harnessed seats than boosters since all the impact forces are absorbed by the head/neck.

Belt positioning boosters are recommended here (Sweden) by the leading experts and the safety record speaks for itself. Harnessed seats are not used for older kids, when the option exists the seat belt is used instead. But again, kids rarely start using booster before 4 years of age which does make a big difference.

As for kids sitting still, it's not a problem here. Why I don't know. My 4.5 year old sits just fine in his seat and doesn't play around. I think it's the job as a parent to teach kid to sit properly at this age but I know many disagree and have other views. The kids are certainly capable of this and I consider it a minor thing compared to all the other things that can be learned/taught.

About OP son, 3.5 years is really a bit too young for a booster IMHO. It may be legal but I find it a bit early. Like the other posters say, I think looking for an alternative at his age would be a good idea.:twocents:

 

[skaterbabs]

The fact that kids sit so tightly restrained in harnessed seats are good but also a huge problem since all the force is absorbed by the neck. But people don't understand this and believe it's a fantastic feature.

Please remember that research in this country does NOT support this point of view.

Children under four AND 40 pounds should not be in a booster. It's not safe and in some states it's not legal.

Ideally children will be closer to six before moving to a booster full-time. This is because the brain synapses that govern impulse control do not BEGIN to develop until 5-6 years old for a neuro-typical child. Boys tend to be on the 6 side of that, girls are often ready closer to five because of the way children's brains develop. A child who is not sitting perfectly in a booster is at risk of serious injury or death in a crash, and there is NOTHING to ensure the child is sitting properly.

A booster will not restrain your child, it merely "boosts" them higher so the vehicle seat belt (designed with a 50 percentile adult in mind) will fit where it is supposed to fit. It's up to your child to sit properly. If your son reaches over to retrieve a drink, a toy, a book, and a drunk driver runs a red light and plows into your car, the result will be catastrophic.

:twocents:

 

[Wineaux]

It's important to remember, that you reduce the safety of your child with each car seat milestone.

This means... Rear Facing > Forward Facing and 5-Point > Booster > Seat Belt Only.

Your child is more than 50% safer in a 5-point harness than in a booster seat, and if your child cannot sit correctly in a booster seat 100% of the time, then it's just like your child is not restrained at all! That's right. The safety offered by a booster is pretty much completely defeated/compromised if your child does not sit in it properly 100% of the time. This is why you see us not recommending booster seat use until the maturity level of the child is such that they will sit correctly in the booster 100% of the time. Regardless of their age, weight, or height.


PS... My physics beats your State laws every time.

 

[emandbri]

The fact that kids sit so tightly restrained in harnessed seats are good but also a huge problem since all the force is absorbed by the neck. But people don't understand this and believe it's a fantastic feature.

This doesn't make any sense, the crash forces would be on the shoulders not the neck.

Do you mean in a side impact crash? if a person is sitting outboard on the right side of the car and there is a side impact crash the seat belt would also be at the neck the same as in a 5-point. If the crash was on the other side there is now only the lap belt holding them back.

5-points protect much better in a side impact crash than a 3 point seat belt, they also protect better in roll overs.

 

[beki33b]

That said - I'm in Canada - and boosters here have a 40lb AND 4-yr minimum limit.

To add on to that, it seems that the government of Canada has decided that *the same* boosters that are allowed at 30lbs in the US, are NOT safe until 40 lbs. And Canada has a legal minimum age of 4 years old for boosters.

So...even though the manufacturers say 30lbs is ok, and the US government allows it, it isn't believed by everybody.