Need help with 3 across Rav4 2006

[Pixels]

The actual AAP wording: "All children 2 y or older, or those younger than 2 y who have outgrown the rear-facing weight or height limit for their CSS, should use a forward-facing CSS with a harness for as long as possible, up to the highest weight or height allowed by the manufacturer of their CSS."
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2011/03/21/peds.2011-0213.full.pdf+html

I absolutely believe children should ride RFing to a minimum of age two and preferably much longer. My own 3.75yo is still RFing. But I don't like when information is misrepresented, either.

OH law says kids under 4 and 40 must be in a properly used child restraint. Kids over 4 and 40 and under age 8 or 4'9" must be in a properly used booster. Properly used means that you have to follow the manufacturer's instructions. If your seat has a one year, 20 pound, 34 inch minimum for forward facing, then as long as your child meets all those minimums it is legal to forward face. (On a side note, virtually no 12 month old is 34 inches tall. My 12 month old is 27 inches and my 3.75 yo is 37 inches.) It is not recommended to forward face at 1 and 20 by any organization.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.81

 

[Itzfaith]

Cool. Glad to know im doing the right thing. AND im glad I called toyota to get accurate info.

 

[Itzfaith]

Wanted to add this link. It shows that 3 do fit across in a Rav 4.
http://www.rav4world.com/forums/98-4-3-interior/82130-3-baby-seats-across-back-row-2.html

 

[ketchupqueen]

The problem with using the center seatbelt for an infant seat is that I've tried many seats there and been unable to get a secure install because of the weird long buckle stalk and hard-to-compress middle seat cushion... I have a LOT of clients come in with RAV4s, so we always try the middle first, but I'm rarely able to get a proper install there.

On the other hand I am almost always able to leave the front passenger seat useable, as long as it sits upright and the infant seat handle is allowed to be left up, when installing behind the passenger, without touching the front passenger seat.

Playing is going to be the best way to figure out what works for you, of course. So get your restraints and go in and shuffle them around, see how you can get it to fit!

Here's a picture showing my 3 across; you can see that even with a very narrow booster center, there's just room to have a narrow person/booster outboard. There would not be room for anything but a very, very narrow backless booster, if I had put a permanently installed seat center, because in order to get a secure install in that seating position, when I've been able to do it with convertibles, the seat ends up shifted toward the driver's side (otherwise the install was not able to be made secure, with all the seats I tried.) http://www.car-seat.org/showpost.php?p=1845387&postcount=612

I'm not sure if Toyota has ever tried to do a car seat install in that center seating position... it's really quite difficult to do and achieve a proper tightness (less than 1" of movement in any direction at the belt path.) And apparently impossible or very close to it, with many seats.

 

[Itzfaith]

Good News! I went to babies r us and borrowed a Graco Snugride 30 to try in my rav4. I installed it first, in the middle, using the center seat belt and got it super tight with the locking clip. I reclined all 3 seats back, buckled the base, used the locking clip and then at the same time (with DH help) pulled the seats forward. The base barely moved. I then put the boosters in the outer seat and put the infant carrier in the base. I then had my boys get in to do a trial run. I will admit, buckling them in was not that easy, VERY snug and could barely get my hand between the seats to get the boys buckled, but it worked. All seats were upright in the same position, both boys buckled and infant seat not going anywhere or touching the back of the front seats. I imagine if I got a more narrow booster, backless, it would be that much easier. When baby grows out of the infant seat, I am almost positive I could get a Radian in the center and 2 narrow boosters on the sides. I had no problem with the base sitting on the seat belt at all. I just don't get why everyone thinks this is what happens. I didn't buy the car seat yet, but when I do I will be back with pictures. IT CAN BE DONE!

 

[Itzfaith]

I'm back with pictures of my install. It works and was inspected by the local fire department that offers car seat inspections. This was hard to do. AND, it will not be easy to get the kids in and out. BUT it is safe, properly installed, and will have to do until we can afford another car payment. Our Rav4 is paid off and I'd like to enjoy that for while longer.


The seats are: Graco Turbo Booster, Evenlo High Back, and Graco Snugride.

Eventually, I will be removing the back to one of the boosters. My 6 year old had a growth spurt and can now use it backless. I don't like it, but it might give him more space. I imagine that it will be easier to put a Radian in next year but we will see. By then I might be over the hassle and just get a mini van.

 

[sixmaybemore]

The screws on your booster seat are missing! Please put the screws in before using the booster seat again.

 

[ketchupqueen]

I notice your Turbo Booster is missing its screws. This is dangerous and I would have hoped the tech you saw would have noticed that. :/ You need to get those in before a child rides in the seat.

Glad it seems to work for you. Did the tech remove the seat to check it and then have you reinstall?

ETA: cross-posted! Hi six.

 

[Pixels]

Your Turbo Booster is missing its screws. It cannot be used without the screws in the armrests.

It's an incredibly common mistake. So common that I carry Turbo screws and a screwdriver, and any Turbo I see gets checked for them (and I've never met a Turbo with the screws already in). Checking for missing parts is a part of checking the seats, and any tech who missed that probably missed a few other things as well. Did they tell you that you cannot have the handle in that position when the vehicle is in motion? Is there a tech on this list who lives near you? http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=59135

 

[canadiangie]

I hope the people at the fire dept talked to you about the screws (or lack thereof) on your Turbo booster.

And I hope they advised you not to drive with the handle of your Snugride in that position (shown in the pic) as it's restricted. You can drive with the handle in position A, D or E; never B or C. Right now it's in position C. (assuming the 30 has the same handle rules as the 22)

Are you using a locking clip on the Snugride base or a locked seatbelt? Edited: never mind, I see there is no locking clip. Did they teach you how to use one? I would guess your base will be tilted almost instantly with the bumping its going to get from buckling boosters so close beside. It's going to require you twist the buckle stalk as I can see the latch plate of the seatbelt is already on the edge of the belt path.

 

[canadiangie]

Good News! I went to babies r us and borrowed a Graco Snugride 30 to try in my rav4. I installed it first, in the middle, using the center seat belt and got it super tight with the locking clip. I reclined all 3 seats back, buckled the base, used the locking clip and then at the same time (with DH help) pulled the seats forward. The base barely moved. I then put the boosters in the outer seat and put the infant carrier in the base. I then had my boys get in to do a trial run. I will admit, buckling them in was not that easy, VERY snug and could barely get my hand between the seats to get the boys buckled, but it worked. All seats were upright in the same position, both boys buckled and infant seat not going anywhere or touching the back of the front seats. I imagine if I got a more narrow booster, backless, it would be that much easier. When baby grows out of the infant seat, I am almost positive I could get a Radian in the center and 2 narrow boosters on the sides. I had no problem with the base sitting on the seat belt at all. I just don't get why everyone thinks this is what happens. I didn't buy the car seat yet, but when I do I will be back with pictures. IT CAN BE DONE!

I feel like this needs to be addressed.

The concern isn't that the base is sitting on a seatbelt.

The concern is that you have a booster sitting against the middle seatbelt which is now in use, holding an infant car seat base in place.

Most of us have seen lot of crash test footage in our days. We get crash dynamics. And while I cannot speak for everyone, I think the general concern is that overlapping seatbelts could cause a domino affect of sorts, in your case creating a safety concern for the booster rider who is sitting up against the middle belt.

It's not just about cramming seats in and saying 'see it works'. Unfortunately Toyota has created a real dog's breakfast in your backseat, and those of us who have been doing this for a while can't help but be concerned with having 3 seats installed at the same time.

I also get that you need to make this work because this is your vehicle and your family is expanding. You are doing what you have to do. Okay fine. But please don't be upset when the majority of us who have posted to your thread remain semi concerned with the set-up in your vehicle. We are only trying to help by offering firsthand knowledge of your vehicle, and past installation experiences.

 

[Pixels]

Looking closely again, I see that the locking clip is being used on the wrong side of the seat. That is a deadly mistake as it can shred the seat belt if it's on the wrong side like that. The person who inspected your seats obviously had no clue what they were doing.

Please, have someone else check your seats. Please.

 

[canadiangie]

Looking closely again, I see that the locking clip is being used on the wrong side of the seat. That is a deadly mistake as it can shred the seat belt if it's on the wrong side like that. The person who inspected your seats obviously had no clue what they were doing.

Please, have someone else check your seats. Please.

I saw the tiniest gold dot, and the shoulder portion looks to be pinned down, but wasn't sure if I was seeing things. Thank you.

Itzfaith: please have your seats re-checked.

 

[An Aurora]

No, the AAP's absolute maximum for forward facing is two years.

NHTSA says RF to age four.

“The ‘age 2’ recommendation is not a deadline, but rather a guideline to help parents decide when to make the transition,” Dr. Durbin said. “Smaller children will benefit from remaining rear-facing longer, while other children may reach the maximum height or weight before 2 years of age.”

http://www.healthychildren.org/engl...000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR:+No+local+token

 

[bubbaray]

OK, so the plastic bits "fit", but how on earth is anyone going to buckle those boosters? I can't see how even a child's hand could fit to buckle/unbuckle the belt.

I own a 2010 RAV4 with the overlapping belts. I purchased it knowing that I would never even attempt a 3 across. I would never put my children or other people's children in a 3 across in my vehicle, that is how strongly I feel about the safety of the belt configuration.

I would also be concerned (as I am in any 3 across) about a booster-rider unintentionally unbuckling a belt-installed seat. People need to be very very careful that they check the installs regularly in that case. This also applies to where you have an adult sitting beside a belt-installed seat.

 

[Itzfaith]

Well, I got the seats rechecked today and I am in shock with the last installation. It was all wrong! The screws are missing on my Graco Turbo Booster and I am able to order some more. No big deal as long as I get them in ASAP. The 3 seats CAN be installed, but they were not installed correctly originally. This time they are. The infant seat in the center is not going anywhere and it took 2 people to get it right. One person pushing down the seat and hold the seat belt while the other put the locking clip on and then buckled it. It was tough as the locking amount of pressure put on the base needed to be consistent before and after the locking clips was placed and the seat was buckled. DONE! Then we had to make sure the boosters fit and that the buckle was accessible and able to buckle well. DONE! Everything is done correctly now. I am confident with today's installation. They did say that in the future, a Radian would be the best option because it is narrow, 5 pt harness, and it could latch perfectly in the side passenger seats positions. But are current set up is just fine. We did have to move the Evenflo seat to the otherside (behind the driver) because the arm rests are higher up, therefore making the buckle more accessible. The other side (behind passenger) had more space so the Graco Turbo booster was perfect there leaving plenty of space to access the buckle. All in all, I am pretty happy with this install. They pointed out everything that was wrong with the first install which was that missing screw, lock clip on the wrong side, boosters on the wrong side. This CAN be done, and so I am posting this update so that other parents know not to be intimidated by so called professionals online. Take it to a professional before believing everything you read online. I agree it was not an easy install but for people to say it's impossible is ridiculous. I know others might not be comfortable with the how tight everything is, but this is perfectly safe.

ETA: Removing the high backs of the boosters did not make a difference in accessibility so we decided to leave them (particularly for the oldest of my boys) because it is the safer option.

 

[canadiangie]

What an odd way of thanking us for pointing out the errors of the first installs, and the missing screws. Without the help of us, you'd have gone on to use an incorrectly installed base and a booster without screws. I guess it's okay to trust the help of online technicians for some stuff, eh?

Just out of curiosity, who did you take your vehicle to? (if you don't mind posting it)


I'm not sure I'd opt to put a Radian in an outboard position down the road because you aren't going to get two boosters side by side, and your oldest children will need boosters for quite some time. Along those lines, I'd guess that getting a rear facing Radian correctly installed in the middle seating position could prove quite difficult. You would certainly want to try it before you actually purchased a Radian.

Well, I got the seats rechecked today and I am in shock with the last installation. It was all wrong! The screws are missing on my Graco Turbo Booster and I am able to order some more. No big deal as long as I get them in ASAP. The 3 seats CAN be installed, but they were not installed correctly originally. This time they are. The infant seat in the center is not going anywhere and it took 2 people to get it right. One person pushing down the seat and hold the seat belt while the other put the locking clip on and then buckled it. It was tough as the locking amount of pressure put on the base needed to be consistent before and after the locking clips was placed and the seat was buckled. DONE! Then we had to make sure the boosters fit and that the buckle was accessible and able to buckle well. DONE! Everything is done correctly now. I am confident with today's installation. They did say that in the future, a Radian would be the best option because it is narrow, 5 pt harness, and it could latch perfectly in the side passenger seats positions. But are current set up is just fine. We did have to move the Evenflo seat to the otherside (behind the driver) because the arm rests are higher up, therefore making the buckle more accessible. The other side (behind passenger) had more space so the Graco Turbo booster was perfect there leaving plenty of space to access the buckle. All in all, I am pretty happy with this install. They pointed out everything that was wrong with the first install which was that missing screw, lock clip on the wrong side, boosters on the wrong side. This CAN be done, and so I am posting this update so that other parents know not to be intimidated by so called professionals online. Take it to a professional before believing everything you read online. I agree it was not an easy install but for people to say it's impossible is ridiculous. I know others might not be comfortable with the how tight everything is, but this is perfectly safe.

ETA: Removing the high backs of the boosters did not make a difference in accessibility so we decided to leave them (particularly for the oldest of my boys) because it is the safer option.

 

[An Aurora]

On DS I shared the links to other threads discussing the 3-across situation of this vehicle.

 

[Admin]

This CAN be done, and so I am posting this update so that other parents know not to be intimidated by so called professionals online. Take it to a professional before believing everything you read online. I agree it was not an easy install but for people to say it's impossible is ridiculous.

We have hundreds of the most experienced and knowledgeable "online" certified child passenger safety technicians at www.car-seat.org. Countless parents and caregivers receive great information here every week. These same techs also install many carseats in person and may well be the same professionals you find in your area.

Of course, no technician can be familiar with every possible situation or configuration. They are also human and can overlook something or make a mistake. This is not only true of "online" technicians, but also those you visit in person. Even so, for difficult situations, there is no substitute for seeing a local technician who can give a first hand assessment of what may be needed, especially in the case of a difficult installation or multiple, adjacent carseats. Information obtained online is very convenient, but being able to try it in-person is usually going to result in more accurate information specific to your carseats and vehicles.

As per the disclaimer at the bottom of every page:

All responses are the opinions of each indvidual, who may or may not have relevant training or familiarity with your vehicle or carseat. It is your responsibility to read and follow the directions in the owner's manuals. If you are unsure about information provided to you, please visit a local certified technician for a FREE CARSEAT SAFETY INSPECTION. The best child safety seat is one that correctly fits your child, your vehicle and can be used properly each and every trip.