Car seat overlap Or side by side

katymyers

Active member
This might be a rant but it's posts like these that make me think "perfect use" is impossible. How is the average (or below average!) parent supposed to know every single rule...? SMH
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I agree, I mean even 'above average' parents like most of us here don't know all these rules. This is all a little ridiculous, car seat manufacturers need to be held accountable for making their seats user friendly because when their rules start confusing techs with years of experience there is a serious problem.


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Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
Just wanted to chime in with the frustration. I'm doing very few in-vehicle installs these days, but until a month ago, I was doing anywhere from 5-20+ on an average week. I was in a program that had one harnessed seat, one booster, and one low-birthweight infant seat for use in certain situations. That was all we stocked, and it was a low-income program, so families coming to us couldn't just pop out to BRU and pick out a Radian or whatever.

The "rules" that keep cropping up... In the real world, they don't work. When I have a mom roll in with her 6yo in a harmony backless and her 2yo in an old school Scenera, I will gladly tell her that the Snugride we're replacing really shouldn't have been center LATCHed in her Accord. And I'll suggest that we put the 1yo into the 2yo's Scenera because the Titan65 I have will last longer than the Scenera for the toddler. But when I go to put those kids in the car and find belts that come out on opposite sides, or that I can only fit the booster in if we slip it under the side of the convertible... That's how they'll leave. Because what are our options? Put that 2yo in the front seat, untethered? Tell her to leave the 6yo without a booster?

MACPS is a great organization - I love that the manufacturers are all coming together to give harmonized statements so that we have a better global understanding of passenger safety. But when we have these random, minute, NOT CONTAINED IN MANUAL OR CURRICULUM guidelines, this is an issue. As a technician, I have time to do one of two things: I can stay online and stay up to date on every random rule and exception and quirk, or I can get out in my community and help families with car seats. But what good is one without the other?

To the manufacturers of vehicles, of car seats, and the writers of curriculum, I say this: if it's important, put it in your manual. If it's not in the manual, it doesn't exist. Because, sure, 2% of techs are on Cso or in tech talk or whatever. But when I go out to a rural county and work an event with all five of the techs in that county, when I start spouting rules that are from some tucked-away document that no one's ever heard of, one of two things happen - either the techs write me off as nuts, or they give up and go home. And then instead of having seats that are installed tightly, with locked belts and snug harnesses, that might violate random rule #108, we have families with no access to technician resources because they have all given up - because what's the point. They cannot stay cutting edge up-to-date on these random bits, and at this point I feel like getting "the big stuff" right isn't good enough anymore.

Which is insane. Car seats, used at all, save lives. Car seats, properly used, save more. And optimally used, they save more still. But if we can get a tight installation and a tight harness, guys, WE WIN. If a .75" overlap of seatbelts precludes these things, then maybe we need to rewrite the curriculum to reflect that. (Weight limits on LATCH cropped up - it really WAS that important and now it's widely known. Are the overlap rules? If so, they need to go into wider circulation, too.)
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Exactly right. If it's a Rule, one that must always be followed, then it absolutely, positively must be printed in an owner's manual, official addendum or your own state law. Because if you are a certified tech/instructor, you're gonna need that if you ever find yourself in a courtroom.

Everything else is just a guideline. Even if it's from a very reputable and well-meaning agency like the AAP or NHTSA or MACPS or whomever. They may have research, they may have data, but what they don't have is liability if you make a parent follow your interpretation of a 3rd party guideline.

All these 3rd party guidelines have one thing in common. You get all the liability if you tout them as something a parent *must* do. Any source but the owner's manual or state law is essentially something that a parent has no reasonable expectation to find on their own. That includes something that you may have heard first hand from a manufacturer's representative, too. Because if they didn't deem it important enough to document in their manuals, you shouldn't deem it important enough to assume liability if an injury results from it. And let's face it, even if the injury isn't related to the guideline, you're gonna be the one named on the lawsuit. And if you don't have an owner's manual or state law on your side, you have a lot more risk.

That's not to say these guidelines are worthless. They are definitely very valuable for all those gray areas where neither owner's manual says anything. If you can adhere to these guidelines, great, but like Carrie said, sometimes you KNOW that following a guideline is actually likely to reduce the safety for a child, like having to put one in the front seat!

For example, I have no issues installing adjacent carseats if there is some LATCH/seatbelt crossover or if they are touching, depending on the situation. Unless it's prohibited in the manual, of course!


I agree as well. There are many rules that I cannot find in my manual even though they are supposedly supposed to be followed. Like I have never seen anything written in a manual specifically saying that latch and vehicle belts cannot cross.

It all reminds me of this post:http://carseatblog.com/33402/carseat-rules-do-they-apply-to-you-really/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just wanted to chime in with the frustration. I'm doing very few in-vehicle installs these days, but until a month ago, I was doing anywhere from 5-20+ on an average week. I was in a program that had one harnessed seat, one booster, and one low-birthweight infant seat for use in certain situations. That was all we stocked, and it was a low-income program, so families coming to us couldn't just pop out to BRU and pick out a Radian or whatever.

The "rules" that keep cropping up... In the real world, they don't work. When I have a mom roll in with her 6yo in a harmony backless and her 2yo in an old school Scenera, I will gladly tell her that the Snugride we're replacing really shouldn't have been center LATCHed in her Accord. And I'll suggest that we put the 1yo into the 2yo's Scenera because the Titan65 I have will last longer than the Scenera for the toddler. But when I go to put those kids in the car and find belts that come out on opposite sides, or that I can only fit the booster in if we slip it under the side of the convertible... That's how they'll leave. Because what are our options? Put that 2yo in the front seat, untethered? Tell her to leave the 6yo without a booster?

MACPS is a great organization - I love that the manufacturers are all coming together to give harmonized statements so that we have a better global understanding of passenger safety. But when we have these random, minute, NOT CONTAINED IN MANUAL OR CURRICULUM guidelines, this is an issue. As a technician, I have time to do one of two things: I can stay online and stay up to date on every random rule and exception and quirk, or I can get out in my community and help families with car seats. But what good is one without the other?

To the manufacturers of vehicles, of car seats, and the writers of curriculum, I say this: if it's important, put it in your manual. If it's not in the manual, it doesn't exist. Because, sure, 2% of techs are on Cso or in tech talk or whatever. But when I go out to a rural county and work an event with all five of the techs in that county, when I start spouting rules that are from some tucked-away document that no one's ever heard of, one of two things happen - either the techs write me off as nuts, or they give up and go home. And then instead of having seats that are installed tightly, with locked belts and snug harnesses, that might violate random rule #108, we have families with no access to technician resources because they have all given up - because what's the point. They cannot stay cutting edge up-to-date on these random bits, and at this point I feel like getting "the big stuff" right isn't good enough anymore.

Which is insane. Car seats, used at all, save lives. Car seats, properly used, save more. And optimally used, they save more still. But if we can get a tight installation and a tight harness, guys, WE WIN. If a .75" overlap of seatbelts precludes these things, then maybe we need to rewrite the curriculum to reflect that. (Weight limits on LATCH cropped up - it really WAS that important and now it's widely known. Are the overlap rules? If so, they need to go into wider circulation, too.)
 

lourdes

Well-known member
You both read my mind! I come across this situations almost daily, and I can't just tell a parent oh well go buy a new car! I just can't! I sing all I can to keep children safe in my country, but for me it's hard to keep up with thing that aren't in the owners manual!
So, all this things have me thinking of an install I did and I want to be sure that it's ok or if I have to call the parent and re do the install, I got 2 Contenders side by side on RF pass and FF middle in a Kia Sorento 2012, they are independently tight but they are tight next to each other, they wanted them like that because they ride with another adult in the back, I know this is a tech question but I haven't been able to get access to the tech forum
 

Admin

Admin - Webmaster
If your tech info is public on the Safe Kids USA site, it's really just a matter of going into your own user Control Panel, updating the tech field in your profile and submitting a join request in the Group Memberships area.
 

lourdes

Well-known member
If your tech info is public on the Safe Kids USA site, it's really just a matter of going into your own user Control Panel, updating the tech field in your profile and submitting a join request in the Group Memberships area.
I think I did it, just updated my profile, that's it?
 

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