3 Across Car Rental in Brazil Revisited - Please help us figure out how save some serious $$$$!

[threeundertwo]

I posted a few months ago about trying to do 3 across (2FF, 1 RF) in rental car in Brazil and need some more help. Sorry! Don't want to seem like a problem poster but there's some serious money involved so I'd appreciate any help folks can give.

We purchased two Surerides on Black Friday and were hoping to do RF Radian and 2 FF Surerides in mid-size car. We've since investigated what types of vehicles are available and to our dismay renting anything larger than a Ford Fiesta Sedan is double the price, which is over a $4000 difference for 4 months we'll be in Brazil. Purchasing a car is not an option since it's very expensive and appears to involve a lot of bureaucracy. So . . . I went to our local Ford dealer and tried to fit 2 Radians and a Sureride in a Fiesta Sedan. No go! Does anyone know if we could get 3 Radians or 2 Radians and an Olympia in a Fiesta Sedan or similar size vehicle? 2 FF and 1 RF. I'd much rather spend an extra $225 on a seat than $4000 to rent a larger vehicle. I have 2 angle adjusters and if necessary we could probably have 2 RF. Anyone have experience with the Fiesta in particular?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give!

 

[mom2juliarose]

Will you be in an area with public transportation? Could you save renting a car just for the weekends? Just asking as that has been what we did when in Brazil, using the bus system during the week and then renting the car on the weekends to go out of the area or just be able to go without relying on the bus schedule.

Sorry I don't have experience with the Fiesta myself, but yeah, tiny cars are what everyone drives down there so it doesn't surprise me too much that they put higher prices on the bigger cars, even if you're only looking at a sedan.

GL and I hope you find a solution that can work!

 

[bubbaray]

We had a Fiesta for a day from the dealer. OMG. That is a TINY car. I can't imagine 3 across in there. I had two seats in there and it was squishy. Even if they fit across, you will have front to back issues because there is zero room between the back seat and the front seats.

 

[threeundertwo]

Will you be in an area with public transportation? Could you save renting a car just for the weekends?

Unfortunately my husband will need a car to travel to work every day. It's a 15 minute drive by car but close to 3 hours by bus. The preschool our kids will most likely attend is also close to his work.

I'm wondering if it's worth just buying a 3rd Radian and trying all the small cars on the lot. I'm not excited about hauling 3 of those suckers through various airports but if there's a good chance it could work, I'll do it. It beats the alternative.

When I was at the Ford dealer I wasn't thinking about 3 Radians but it was TIGHT with one Sureride and a Radian. Am I kidding myself hoping that 3 Radians would look a lot different?

 

[mom2juliarose]

I have a friend with 3 Radians across in her Civic, 1 RFing, 2 FFing. Think it is smaller than a Civic? And while flying with the Radian can be a PITA we loved it flying from LAX to POA (our destination) because DD was able to use the airplane tray due to the low profile of the Radian. When we had an MA we couldn't do that.

 

[bubbaray]

Yes the Fiesta is much smaller than the Civic. Also MUCH less room front to back. The back seat is almost not usable

 

[mom2juliarose]

Ick. On our last trip we wound up with a tiny Fiat that felt like a Smart Car LOL. We only had 1 kiddo with us, though. GL to you OP and I hope you will update with your solution!

 

[Alison's Mom]

Would your husband's company not pay for the rental? People I know that have moved for work usually have the company paying for moving expenses, rent, car rental etc.

Can the RFer use an Angle Adjuster for the Radian? That would help for front to back room. I was looking at this spreadsheet, and noticed that the Coccoro looks to be narrower than a Radian. I haven't seen one in real life as they're not available in Canada, but maybe worth a try? Also, the Clek Foonf/Fllo are also narrow, and might take up less front to back room than a Radian. Foonf is super heavy; Fllo less so, but still heavy. Or, would one of the kids fit in a travel vest? http://ridesafertravelvest.com/ Again, not legal in Canada, but available in US.

 

[threeundertwo]

Would your husband's company not pay for the rental?

Can the RFer use an Angle Adjuster for the Radian? Or, would one of the kids fit in a travel vest? http://ridesafertravelvest.com/ Again, not legal in Canada, but available in US.

Unfortunately my husband is doing research at an institute not working for a company. It's a new institute on the edge of the city so there's no public transport there.

We do have an angle adjuster for the Radian. I just checked out the Ride Safe Vest and that looks like a great option for our bigger twin if not both twins. Thank you! They'll be almost 5 and one is over 40lbs so those would definitely work. I believe cars in Brazil don't have tether anchors and most middle seat belts are lap belt only. So the vest rider(s) would need to be outboard. THANK YOU! This will save us a ton of money! Maybe I'll buy two vests and bring the Radians and a Sureride to use on the plan and the vests. Then we'll just see what fits into rental car. I'll keep you posted. Thank you!

 

[Adventuredad]

A Ford Fiesta is a decent small car. It's nothing like a Civic in size. It's a small car so you can forget about placing three kids in the back. In Brazil middle rear also often only has a lap belt. A travel vest offer no additionally safety. There is no reason whatsoever to waste money on this.

If I remember correctly your kids are 4,4 and 3? Maybe a little older when you travel? An older forward facing child, 4 and older, is not any safer in a harnessed seat compared to a high back booster. There is no research, data, stats or real life experiences showing this. Using a hbb or lbw would therefore be cheaper and just as safe.

In addition a low back back booster provide the same safety as a high back booster. There is no difference in protection in frontal or side impact collisions. We know this from research by Arbogast in 2009 (Source: Arbogast et al. "Effectiveness of belt positioning booster seats: an updated assessment"). We normally recommend that kids should use a high back booster between ages 4-6 since they tend to move around a bit more.

But sometimes we have to make compromises. Brazil has a horrendous safety record not only on violent crime but also regarding traffic. Best would of course be to keep all of the kids RF but it sounds like this is not possible.

Best option would be to deactivate airbag in front passenger seat. This position is just as safe as the other positions for FF kids and the safest place for a rear facing child. Yes I know this is not possible in US and pretty much all parents believe it's a death trap. Also remember that US is 30+ years behind in car seat safety. This position has been used extensively for the past 50 years with outstanding safety record. It's recommended by pretty much all car manufacturers.

An easy solution would be to check with the rental car place if the airbag can be tuned off. If so you have a perfect solution. If this is not possible then even a smaller car than Fiesta would be a better choice if airbag can be turned off.

Using the front seat for the FF kids with active airbag is dangerous and not an option. Obviously the same for the RF child.

What about a taxi/limo service for the kids? This often cost next to nothing in Brazil and could be an option for the kids. You mention it's only 15 minutes by car so it must be very close to their school. You can make a deal with a taxi/limo service about leaving and picking up the kids. They might have larger cars available and you can of course select one which has proper seat belts.

Using car seats on the plane is irrelevant for safety. Use a seat if preferred but a child is not any safer. We have tons of data from FAA which show this very clearly (Source: FAA: "Update of safety benefits & tradeoffs related to requiring.........")

 

[Brianna]

I do believe the Admin asked you to stop with that last statement if you couldn't prove it. The FAA recommends car seats for children. They don't require it because they fear more people would drive rather than fly. In this case, OP *is* going to fly there- therefore the car seats are recommended.

And our travel vests pass out standards here- you have no business saying they don't provide any safety. They act as a booster by keeping the seat belt in place- which is exactly what you are promoting- booster use to keep the seat belt in place.

 

[gigi]

The travel vest does not provide safety in a lap belt position with no TT, which I suspect is the case in Brazil.

If the kids are 3+, I agree that seats on board the plane aren't necessary. HOWEVER, it is important for the parent to research and access their comfort level with checking car seats.

If you must have a fiesta, I agree the best choice is probably to put a child up front.

If the kids are actually 4,4, and 3, I would bring 2 travel vests (whichever model has a lockoff is probably preferable, but check that models usage rules regarding a top tether) and use them outboard and put a radian in the middle. If that isn't possible, I would put the radian up front and put myself in the middle between the vests.

 

[1mommy]

If the kids will be 5 and over 40 pounds and if you KNOW you are not going to be using the car seats at the destination I would not bring them just for the plane ride. The FAA recommends just using the seat belt for kids over 40 pounds.

http://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_children/

Not sure on use of travel vest vs a nbb booster but at age 5 and over 40 pounds if you will not be doing much car traveling at night or long distances I would look into nbb to see how they do, if they are too wiggly and cant stay in place or you think they might be doing some car sleeping then I think I would go for the travel vest.

The only problem with Rf the radian in the front is that the OP would be left with the lap only belt in the back which isn't safe for the OP, granted life is about choices and if that's what needs to be done in order to make the kids safe I would probably make the same choice.

 

[bubbaray]

3 Across Car Rental in Brazil Revisited - Please help us figure out how save ...

I personally would not use a vest because they aren't legal here and I wouldn't purchase just for 4 months. I would probably put two kids in the rear and one kid up front. And pray that I didn't need to travel as a family of 5. I can't imagine fitting 5 humans in a Fiesta regardless of seating arrangement. Seriously, it is WAY small. Even if the belts and top tethers did permit it, I don't think three vests would work back there. Microscopic is the best descriptor.

My kids don't use seats onboard the plane after age 2.5-ish and I gate check them. I am comfortable with my parental decision in this regard, but I did a lot of research (I used to be a tech, plus I had lengthy discussions with engineers and commercial pilots IRL). There is a manufacturers statement that gate checked child restraints are NOT considered crashed, so that is something to consider (lots of threads on here about that, lots of varying opinions).

I don't know if I would booster your 4yos. I boostered my own at 5/40. My DD1 would have been fine at age 4 but was not 40lbs. My DD2 would not have been fine at age 4 (& also was not 40 lbs). It really would depend on their ability to stay in position. I do agree that Brazil does not have the best safety record, so that would factor into my decision.

Ultimately, I would not rent a vehicle that could not safely seat my family, particularly while driving in a country I was not familiar with and that did not have a good safety record. Is it necessary for your whole family to go on this trip? Just throwing this out there. Brazil isn't on my bucket list and I know people IRL who travel there frequently. I personally wouldn't be itching to go and if it did go, I would want the biggest car I could find with the best safety features available.

There is ZERO chance I would ever rent a Fiesta EVER even for our family of 4. It sucked that bad for a day.

 

[threeundertwo]

Re: 3 Across Car Rental in Brazil Revisited - Please help us figure out how to save some serious $$$$!

If the kids are actually 4,4, and 3, I would bring 2 travel vests (whichever model has a lockoff is probably preferable, but check that models usage rules regarding a top tether) and use them outboard and put a radian in the middle. If that isn't possible, I would put the radian up front and put myself in the middle between the vests.

The kids are 4, 4 and 3. Twins will turn 5 while we're there. This was what I was thinking after my last post, especially since the Radian would be RF and there will most likely be a lap belt with no top tether in the middle position. I'm hoping there might be tethers outboard but there will at least be shoulder belts which would make the vests a possibility. I know boosters are wider than the Radians so I don't see how that would work. If we can turn off the airbag, I'm fine with putting someone up front in the passenger seat.

We're not going to know exactly what we're dealing with vehicle wise until we get there. Will there top tethers or not, what specific vehicle but we will need a vehicle and the vehicle will most likely be small and most likely have a lap belt only in the middle of the back seat. I'm trying to do what I can to make sure we're relatively safe. I realize Brazil has abysmal road safety and the safest option would be to spend the extra $4000+ to rent a larger vehicle but I'm searching for a relatively safe solution that would save us that money.

It looks like if we buy two vests and then take 2 Surerides and a Radian on the plane, it gives us the most options. If we're able to do one car seat up front then we can fit 4 people in the car. If not, we can hopefully use the vests and put the Radian in between. I don't mind taking the Surerides on the plane and my kids have requested to sit in car seats for the flights. They're used to long car trips and I think they'll be more comfortable in car seats on the plane. I'll think about it some more but right now I'm leaning towards buying two vests and taking those 3 seats and seeing what we can do.

 

[Neatfreak]

Re: 3 Across Car Rental in Brazil Revisited - Please help us figure out how to save some serious $$$$!

Do you have anyone in Brazil (ideally with young kids) that you could contact and ask about what is typical for cars in their country? If it's a country that isn't really into using carseats, there is a good chance that the cars don't have tether anchors. (Also, bring some back-up locking clips, incase the seatbelts don't lock manually).

Have you confirmed that a Ford Fiesta in the USA and a Ford Fiesta in Brazil have the same specs? I assumed this with Honda Odysseys once, and was quite mistaken when our Ody in Asia barely resembled the ones sold in the US/Canada! If they are actually identical, it might be worthwhile trying three Radians out before you depart. In the end, though, I'd probably have the most peace of mind renting the larger vehicle.

 

[threeundertwo]

Re: 3 Across Car Rental in Brazil Revisited - Please help us figure out how to save some serious $$$$!

Do you have anyone in Brazil (ideally with young kids) that you could contact and ask about what is typical for cars in their country? If it's a country that isn't really into using carseats, there is a good chance that the cars don't have tether anchors. (Also, bring some back-up locking clips, incase the seatbelts don't lock manually).

Have you confirmed that a Ford Fiesta in the USA and a Ford Fiesta in Brazil have the same specs? I assumed this with Honda Odysseys once, and was quite mistaken when our Ody in Asia barely resembled the ones sold in the US/Canada! If they are actually identical, it might be worthwhile trying three Radians out before you depart. In the end, though, I'd probably have the most peace of mind renting the larger vehicle.

I've done all that I can to figure out what safety features the Fiesta has there. Even called Ford in Detroit. It does have ISOFIX so I'm guessing 2 top tether anchors. And there's no guarantee that Hertz or whoever we rent through will have a Fiesta in stock but the vehicle would be similar. Car seats are required in Brazil but I hear the law is not enforced. The vehicle looks very much the same as the U.S. model with the difference of the lap belt in the middle back. The travel vests do not require top tethers so if we put them outboard with the shoulder belts they are still OK from what I understand even if they are not tethered. Are the travel vests any safer than a Bubble Bum? I'm wondering if I could buy one of those for the bigger twin who is 40lbs and turning 5 while we're there. I know boostering an almost 5y.o. is not the ideal but if we're already looking at vests and the safety level is the same . . .

 

[gigi]

Safety is the same (as in the child must sit properly the whole time to be protected... The vest doesn't stop the kid from moving around) and boosters are a lot easier to use IMO.

 

[urwnl]

Safety is the same (as in the child must sit properly the whole time to be protected... The vest doesn't stop the kid from moving around) and boosters are a lot easier to use IMO.

I've used both, albeit not on the same kid, but I disagree. The RSTV2, with the top tether (assuming there is a top tether to use) makes it nearly impossible to lean forward in the seat, at least from what I've observed in my 5.4 year old. However, she can move around just as much if the top tether was not in use. You mentioned that there is only a lap belt in the center position. Can you find out from Ford if there is a top tether in that position? If so, you can used the RSTV2 with just a lap belt and a top tether, and you'd be able to put one of the twins in the center position.

 

[threeundertwo]

Thanks. So maybe a bubble bum, a vest and 3 car seats? I'm guessing with those options we should be able to make something work.