3 Across Car Rental in Brazil Revisited - Please help us figure out how save some serious $$$$!

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bubbaray

New member
I would go with a BB unless you are absolutely sure that the vehicle will have TAs. I would NOT take the existence of TAs to be a given in Brazil.
 

threeundertwo

New member
From what I've seen whether the middle seat has a shoulder belt depends on the trim level. The higher trim levels do while the base model does not. So I'm not going to take it as a given. If we can put the Radian there RF it won't matter.

OK so now I'm leaning towards the Bubble Bum, RSVest and 3 car seat idea. I'll still think on it a little though. Thank you!
 

Adventuredad

New member
I do believe the Admin asked you to stop with that last statement if you couldn't prove it. The FAA recommends car seats for children. They don't require it because they fear more people would drive rather than fly. In this case, OP *is* going to fly there- therefore the car seats are recommended.

And our travel vests pass out standards here- you have no business saying they don't provide any safety. They act as a booster by keeping the seat belt in place- which is exactly what you are promoting- booster use to keep the seat belt in place.

A source was provided which can easily be found from the reference. What more do you want? It doesn't matter what people or organisations recommend if it's not correct. The source I provided come from FAA themselves. If every single child on an US airline would have used a car seat in the past 20 years(!) not a single life would have been saved. I say 20 years since this the data was a few years ago. From FAA:

FAA’s position is based on two fundamental premises plus the empirical evidence, which shows no preventable infant deaths in air carrier operations for more than 17 years.

Perhaps travel vests pass the "standards", whatever these are (please provide a link to the standards), but this says nothing. A safety vest provide no safety advantage and does not avoid a child moving around. Makes a parent feel good but does not protect a child better. Since the travel vest offer such a great safety advantage then please provide some peer reviewed research or statistics which show the vests are superior. Not thoughts, opinions or feelings about their superior safety. Since the vests are so much better we should be able to see hundreds of lives saved from the references provided.

The kids are 4, 4 and 3. Twins will turn 5 while we're there.

That is helpful info. The easiest solution would be to make a call to the rental place and ask if airbag in front seat can be turned off. Also ask if middle rear is a lap belt. Quite crucial info. If airbag can be turned off it's a great and safe solution which will save you money. If middle rear is a lap belt then we have a problem.

Most people also don't seem familiar with a Ford Fiesta. It's a SMALL car and definitely not made for for five people. Especially not for three kids with car sets in the rear.

If we look at compromises we see from research that keeping your older FF kids in seat belts, only seat belts, is around 70% less safe than using a hbb or lbb. Not a god solution, especially not in the horrible traffic in Brazil, but we also sometimes have to be humble and accept some compromises. Looking at the positive side it's a lot better than keeping a three year old FF which is 500% less safe than RF.

Are you by the way sure you will be getting a Fiesta? I have traveled to 60+ countries and rented a car in quite a few of these. Options are always "Fiesta or similar size/class". Apologies if you are doing a long term lease since car model might then be easier to specify.
 
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threeundertwo

New member
That is helpful info. The easiest solution would be to make a call to the rental place and ask if airbag in front seat can be turned off. Also ask if middle rear is a lap belt. Quite crucial info. If airbag can be turned off it's a great and safe solution which will save you money. If middle rear is a lap belt then we have a problem.

Most people also don't seem familiar with a Ford Fiesta. It's a SMALL car and definitely not made for for five people. Especially not for three kids with car sets in the rear.

If we look at compromises we see from research that keeping your older FF kids in seat belts, only seat belts, is around 70% less safe than using a hbb or lbb. Not a god solution, especially not in the horrible traffic in Brazil, but we also sometimes have to be humble and accept some compromises. Looking at the positive side it's a lot better than keeping a three year old FF which is 500% less safe than RF.

Are you by the way sure you will be getting a Fiesta? I have traveled to 60+ countries and rented a car in quite a few of these. Options are always "Fiesta or similar size/class". Apologies if you are doing a long term lease since car model might then be easier to specify.

We're not sure by any means the vehicle will be a Fiesta but it will be "similar". My plan is to arrive with as many car seat options as I reasonably can and just go to the rental place and see what vehicles are available, whether they have a middle seat shoulder bet and what car seats fit. Anything larger than the Fiesta class would cost us an extra $4000+ for our stay. So if we can make something work in that class, it would be a huge savings for us. I understand this is not the safest option and safety is all about compromises. I would have no problem buying a third Radian if I knew it would fit but we have no other use for that seat beyond this trip. My almost 5y.o. has a very long torso and is over 40lbs so I would feel OK putting him in a Bubble Bum for the 4 months we're there. I realize this is not ideal but I know we won't be doing long trips. It seems like there's some real disagreement on whether the vests are safe. Maybe a Bubble Bum, 2 Radians and a Sureride in case we're able to turn off the airbag would be our best best?
 
Maybe I missed it, but what size are your kids?

FWIW, we fit a FF Radian (driver's side), RF Britax Roundabout 40 (center) and BubbleBum (passenger side) 3-across in a miniature rental car in Grand Cayman. I think one of our rentals was a Kia and the other a Hyundai but they were both the same tiny size -- probably similar to the Fiesta.
 

threeundertwo

New member
Maybe I missed it, but what size are your kids?

FWIW, we fit a FF Radian (driver's side), RF Britax Roundabout 40 (center) and BubbleBum (passenger side) 3-across in a miniature rental car in Grand Cayman. I think one of our rentals was a Kia and the other a Hyundai but they were both the same tiny size -- probably similar to the Fiesta.

Haven't measured them in a while but the boys are average size for their age, DS1 has a very long torso and his shoulders are almost parallel to the top slots of the Radian (maybe 1/4in to go). DD1 is small for her age and only 32lbs. DS2 is average to small height and can still RF in his MA70 and also weighs just over 30lbs.

If you fit a Roundabout, Radian and BubbleBum in small rental, I'm hopeful we could fit 2 Radians (RF w/ AA and FF) and a BubbleBum. Thank you!
 

threeundertwo

New member
A friend just told me she'll lend us an additional Radian and a BubbleBum for our trip. So thinking we'll show up with 3 Radians and a BubbleBum and hope for the best. If we're successful, I'll post pics. Thank you!
 
The Radians may not puzzle as closely FF and RF as the Radian and Britaxes do -- but I have a hunch the angle adjuster may help them fit a bit closer. Hopefully someone with experience with the angle adjuster might chime in? Or you may, with the angle adjuster and with the passenger seat pulled all the way forward, be able to fit the RF Radian behind that seat and put the BubbleBum in the middle -- which may make you feel better about using the BB but will make it slightly trickier to buckle.

Especially since your oldest has such a long torso, if he's sitting outboard you may want to keep his window closed. In Cayman our son on the BB liked to stick his head out the window, just because the car was so tiny that he could! Had to call a quick halt to that.

Also, Radian recommends top tether anchor use for FF seatbelt installs. You probably won't find a top tether anchor on the Fiesta... but maybe. We used the anchoring strap to create our own (wrapped it around a rear seat post that was directly behind the Radian) but learned afterwards that those are only meant to be used RF. I haven't called Diono yet to ask what they'd recommend in this situation.

Hope this helps! :)

Oh, I just realized you have a Marathon. It might be worth trying that RF next to a FF Radian, vs. a Radian RF next to FF Radian, and measure how much room each combination would take on a seat. The Marathon may actually fit better and is easier to travel with.
 

tobypuppy

New member
If we look at compromises we see from research that keeping your older FF kids in seat belts, only seat belts, is around 70% less safe than using a hbb or lbb. Not a god solution, especially not in the horrible traffic in Brazil, but we also sometimes have to be humble and accept some compromises. Looking at the positive side it's a lot better than keeping a three year old FF which is 500% less safe than RF.

.

I'm not sure this statistic is completely accurate. I'm pretty sure that the 500% safer study involved children under the age of 2. I would imagine that a 3 year old forward facing properly secured in a properly installed carseat would be safer than a 5 year old in just a seat belt. Also, do your statistics take into account proper usage for the hbbs and lbbs? Probably not.
 

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