Worst evil booster with lap belt or lap belt with no booster

LKuepfer

New member
I know lap belts are not good. My daughter has cousins which she rides with sometimes and their van has two of those dreaded lap belts. So I've told her that she's not allowed to use them with her booster which puts ones of their kids (who aren't in a booster)using it. Not like they have any qualms to use a lap belt anway...

But just so I can defend myself to them about this.. Is it more dangerous to use a lap belt with a booster? than one of their booster less kids sitting there? And why? Thanks!
 
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aeormsby

New member
Lap belts aren't safe for anybody.

As far as the booster + lap belt, the booster manual prohibits using it with a lap only belt (because of the general, lap belts aren't safe). If you need proof that your DD needs to use a lap/shoulder belt when she rides with them check the manual, it is in there somewhere.

Boosters don't make the lap belt worse (actually I think there was something quite a while ago that showed it made it somewhat better if a lap belt was the only option, basically at least the lap belt was low instead of directly over the stomach). You can google 'seat belt syndrome' if you want to learn more about why lap-only belts are dangerous.
 

AllieK

New member
How old are the kids and what is their weight & height? A harnessed seat installed with LATCH or the lap belt would be the safest option.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

lgenne

New member
Side note: I thought lap only belts were bad because of the pretty much unlimited head excursion, not because of seat belt syndrome? Shouldn't a booster + lap belt eliminate the risk of seat belt syndrome, but not even touch the risk of head injury?

OP, a ride safer travel vest 2 can be tethered and would work there, as long as there is a tether anchor.
 

aeormsby

New member
This has helpful info about seatbelt syndrome. It's is the internal injuries sustained by having all the force from being restrained at only the lap belt, doesn't matter if it's a child w/o a booster, child with a booster or an adult. All of the force is being put on the lap belt. http://saferide4kids.com/seat-belt-syndrome/

Definition found online:
seat belt syndrome
Contusion of anterior abdominal wall caused by lap seat belts, which may produce lumbar spine fractures with horizontal splitting of the vertebral body and posterior arch, trauma to bowel, vessels, spleen and liver; in the US, lap-type safety belts are found in the front seats of older cars, and in the middle back seats of current vehicles
 

LKuepfer

New member
Okay thanks everyone. This answers my question. I know lap belts aren't safe but I thought they were even worse with a booster. So apparently it doesn't make a difference.

My daughter is 8 and 61 pounds. My sister in laws kids are almost 6 and up. And they only do what most people do with car seat safety is the basics and minimums. They already think I'm nuts with car seat safety so can't do anything there. I'lll just keep trying to make sure my daughter avoids the lap belts. Its only the odd time she travels with them. Sure can't wait until the older vehicles with them disappear!
 

brightredmtn

Well-known member
Okay thanks everyone. This answers my question. I know lap belts aren't safe but I thought they were even worse with a booster.


Unless things have changed since I took my CPST class boosters with lap only belts are more dangerous. The reason is because the booster raises the child's center of gravity and could cause them to flip over their seat in a crash.
 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
The "rules" state that if a lap only belt is unavoidable, the child should ride in the belt without a booster.

CHOP released a study a while back (Arbogast was one of the authors, IIRC) that states the opposite. Of course, no booster permits its use with a lap only belt, so it's kind of a moot point.
 

LKuepfer

New member
Okay thanks brightredmtn for some reason that's I thought could be more unsafe about lap belts. So theoretically if her 14 year old cousin uses the lap-belt instead of her then that's a safer option although not a good one. But they use those two lap belts every day to carpool kids to school so I won't feel guilty to make their kids use it.:rolleyes:

Oh and I'm in Canada if that matters..
 

laurengt

Active member
boosters are not allowed to be used with a lap belts only so if you had to choose, lap belt and no booster. Any chance you can re-harness her???
 

laurengt

Active member
Okay thanks brightredmtn for some reason that's I thought could be more unsafe about lap belts. So theoretically if her 14 year old cousin uses the lap-belt instead of her then that's a safer option although not a good one. But they use those two lap belts every day to carpool kids to school so I won't feel guilty to make their kids use it.:rolleyes: Oh and I'm in Canada if that matters..
Yes, a bigger kid should use the lap belt over a smaller kid.
 

TechnoGranola

Forum Ambassador
Not sure if this was addressed yet, but a person in a lap belt also has the loose upper torso that flies around (imagine side impact) and can injure or kill other passengers with their body.
 

TechnoGranola

Forum Ambassador
Let's not lose sight of the fact that, while lap/shoulder belts are undoubtedly safer, lap only belts have saved LOTS of lives over the years!

Even so, it should probably be an adult in the belt, not the children as I believe studies showed that children benefited more from the lap belt than the adults did? I believe this is one of the articles that addresses it http://www.umtri.umich.edu/content/rr31_3.pdf

That being said, I would likely put an adult in the centre and harnessed kids outboard so they had seats protecting them from the adult's body.

OP, how many passengers are involved in this setup and are any in car seats or others in boosters? How many rear seating positions are there? and how many adults vs kids? Maybe there is a somewhat safer set up than what is being done now?

Would a kid be safer in the front seat, all the way back with a lap/shoulder belt than in the rear seat with a lap belt? I know personally, I would likely do this before putting the child in a lap belt. I am not certain it's the right answer, it's just what I would lean towards doing.
 

bubbaray

New member
It doesn't really matter whether it *should* be an adult in the lap belt or if lap belts have saved lives (and FRT I agree with both). There are NO boosters in Canada that are permitted to be used with lap belts.
 

TechnoGranola

Forum Ambassador
It doesn't really matter whether it *should* be an adult in the lap belt or if lap belts have saved lives (and FRT I agree with both). There are NO boosters in Canada that are permitted to be used with lap belts.


I think I'm missing your point. The OP didn't say Canada, or I missed it. Even so, they were asking if non-boostered kids (seat belt legally allowed kids) could be in a lap belt. Which, depending upon age/size/weight and province, is likely legal. So I was trying to see if an adult could sit in the lap belt instead and other smaller harnessed (or high back booster) kids could sit beside.

Like I said though, probably just missed your point

Edit: one of the questions was about kids not in boosters being in lap belts which is what my comment is addressing
 
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bubbaray

New member
Post #9 says Canada. Or I'm misreading.

ETa and OP says why not use lap belt with a booster. Combine with #9 and the answer is because it isn't legal in Canada. Period full stop
 

TechnoGranola

Forum Ambassador
Post #9 says Canada. Or I'm misreading.

ETa and OP says why not use lap belt with a booster. Combine with #9 and the answer is because it isn't legal in Canada. Period full stop


Thanks. I missed that post.

But she also asked about kids not in boosters using lap belts which is why my comments about an adult maybe being a better choice.
 

LKuepfer

New member
Thanks every body for your responses. The kids usually are 6 and up so no harnessed seats. But even so I don't feel I have any control over setting up their van situation. (2005 Dodge Caravan with two bench seats)I think they feel that they are doing okay as long as everyone has a seatbelt or booster if needed. Because I know they use the lap belts regularly for their kids. And yes I'm from Ontario, Canada.

But I do have my questions answered in that boosters are not allowed with lap belts so I can use that to keep my daughter in a full seatbelt if she rides with them. (Not often but I want to be prepared for the next time) And good to know about a lap belt being safer for an adult than a child riding in one because we have one in two of our vehicles. I always try to put a rear facing seat there if I need to use it. So thanks!
 

lilstar

New member
Tangential thing ive wondered: if a booster were unavailable, which is preferable, lap belt or full seatbelt? My instinct is to say full seatbelt, but i wanted to check. I was riding with a friend once who let her 4-5yo ride in a lap belt ssying, "im okay with no booster sometimes, as long as its a lap belt"and i was thinking, she was way off. Ive heard other people justify skipping a booster just because its a lap belt. Im thinking the hierarchy would be booster w/ full seat belt, as best, full seat belt w/o booster in a pinch/emergency, lap belt w/ no booster would be absolute last resort...do i have this right?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 

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