Why is it "okay" to disregard stated height limit on SR35/T35?

gigi

New member
Just wondering...I think I've seen it posted many times that it is okay to keep baby in this seat until their head is 1" from shell. I have a 31", under 20 lb, just turned 1 y.o. that has ~4" of shell above her head. My manual very clearly states that baby must be less than 32", with a capitalized, bolded MUST. She grows length quickly so I am anticipating she'll hit 32" in 4-6 weeks.

And, while we are discussing, the same question goes for the CCO, which has a stated RF height limit of 36".

Thanks for your help and opinions!
 
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amyd

New member
I don't think it is okay with infant seats. I'm less uncomfortable with it with convertibles.
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
Amy, what's the difference....?

I'm comfortable with the one inch rule (to contain the head when the seat tips down and forward in a crash), I know my kids seat is installed right, the harness is properly positioned, and unlike people who think the weight limit is the only limit that matters, I'm not trying to cram my 40 inch 4 year old into this seat till they are a full 35 pounds. (that's why the limit didn't matter to me personally, my 19 month kid may have been 33 inches, may have been 34, may have been 31, heck she was a wiggly thing to measure, how was I sure she was exactly 32, anyway ;))
 

Brigala

Well-known member
The reason I am OK with it simply because babies that age are really really hard to measure accurately. My daughter has measured 28 inches one minute, and a few minutes later measured 32 inches. It's nearly impossible to get an accurate length on a child who cannot reliably stand up straight. Length measurements for babies, as taken at my doctor's office (lay them down on a piece of paper, mark the head and the foot, and then measure the distance) is a pretty rough estimate. Just because a child measures 32" in that fashion doesn't mean the child is actually that tall. The 1" rule is much easier to measure accurately.
 

EmmaCPST

CPST Instructor
In answer to the Coccoro - Combi has stated multiple times that while the manual says 36", it is acceptable to follow the 1" rule.
 

amyd

New member
joolsplus3 said:
Amy, what's the difference....?
There probably really isn't any but some Canadian convertibles have (or maybe had) lower overall stated height limits for RFing than their American counterparts. I feel like I'm willing to push it a bit more knowing that. Also infant seats generally cannot be installed at a more upright angle. I don't want my kid's head anywhere near the top of that shell if over-rotation occurs. They're back so far as it is. That's one reason why I choose convertibles that can be installed more upright. And why I don't max out infant seats anyway.
 

tiggercat

New member
I think the real question is "why do manufacturers insist on putting arbitrary numerical height limits on their seats when we know the important thing is maintaining space above the head"?
When the solution to the child meeting the height limit is moving to an infant/toddler seat, I say move them up. But if the choice is to RF over the numerical height limit with plenty of shell above the head, or turn FF, I'd pick RF every time.
My first radian had a 32 inch height limit, iirc. My newer model is 44 inches for RF. I'd still put my kid in either, despite him being over 32in.

Sent from my iPod touch using Car-Seat.Org
 

EmmaCPST

CPST Instructor
I've always wondered, and never done the research to figure it out - how do they come up with the height limits, especially companies like Dorel? Is it in relation to the weight limit? For example, if the weight limit of the seat is 40 pounds, and the RF height restriction is 40" does that mean they took an average of 50th percentile 40 pound kids and determined that 40" was their average height? Or something like that?
 

christineka

New member
I remembered reading the thing about infant buckets. I'm fortunate with tiny kids. My nearly 3 yo is 35 inches and fits in the 30-35 pound infant seats with inches above her head. It's fun to try her out in them, but I would never let her ride in an infant seat, unless it's a true emergency.
 

gigi

New member
Thanks for all the info. I'm triple sure now I want to move her to a convertible.

Does anyone know if Combi has stated *in writing* that it is okay to disregard stated height limit on the CCO?
 

Brigala

Well-known member
Originally Posted by QuassEE
Original (and properly formatted) version available at:
http://www.couponsurfers.com/crashtests.html

...

Recommendations
We strongly recommend advising parents not to exceed maximum height limits on infant-only child restraints; when a limited distance exists between the rear of the child restraint and the vehicle seat in front, even more conservative height limitations should be advised. We consistently observed ATD contact with vehicle interiors, primarily during instances of initial downward rotation. According to Transport Canada, this is “the way they are designed to work” and because they are coming into contact with a soft portion of the vehicle seat, "the risk of injury is low." [5] Most Child Passenger Safety Technicians and Children's Restraint Systems Technicians currently recommend that children continue to use their rear-facing child restraints until there is 1” of hard shell left above the child's head, unless weight limits are reached first. The 12 month ATD is, in most cases, at or near the maximum recommended height limit for the infant restraints tested, although it was observed that often at least 1” of hard shell existed above the ATD's head during testing. Despite clearly satisfying the 1” rule and being within the stated numerical maximum height limit of the tested child restraints, the ATDs frequently struck the vehicle interior during testing. It may be advantageous for parents to move children from infant-only restraints to rear-facing convertible seats even before the child meets the maximum stated height limits of the infant-only restraint, especially when limited front-back distance exists between vehicle seats.
Does anybody know whether this applies to a convertible? I could see how it might be a bigger problem with an infant seat just because the seat is more reclined (typically). This is also a reason I'm very uncomfortable with the recline angle on the Complete Air. They are tested at that angle, but on a test bench without a front seat in front of it. I am not OK with putting a 35 lb toddler in a rear-facing seat at a 45 degree (or greater) angle.

As far as the Coccoro goes, my own daughter won't reach 36 inches before she gets too tall by 1" rule for that seat (if she isn't already; she was super close a few weeks ago when I last tried her in it). She's a bit long in the torso. I think maybe since I do have other options for her, my CCO will be retired now until the next baby.
 

hope41more

New member
Brigala said:
Does anybody know whether this applies to a convertible? I could see how it might be a bigger problem with an infant seat just because the seat is more reclined (typically). This is also a reason I'm very uncomfortable with the recline angle on the Complete Air. They are tested at that angle, but on a test bench without a front seat in front of it. I am not OK with putting a 35 lb toddler in a rear-facing seat at a 45 degree (or greater) angle.

As far as the Coccoro goes, my own daughter won't reach 36 inches before she gets too tall by 1" rule for that seat (if she isn't already; she was super close a few weeks ago when I last tried her in it). She's a bit long in the torso. I think maybe since I do have other options for her, my CCO will be retired now until the next baby.
Why? My ds is more upright, but I'd like to hear why I did that ;)
 

Brigala

Well-known member
Why? My ds is more upright, but I'd like to hear why I did that ;)
LOL!

It's because I'm concerned with downward rotation and the risk of the child's head hitting things in front of it. A heavier child will cause the seat to rotate downwards more (which is one reason I am choosing to brace the Radian in my Civic, where I can, rather than opt for the angle adjuster). Downward rotation is the reason we don't have RF seats rated for higher than 45 lbs in the US. In Sweden they can get around it by taking anti-rotation measures such as required bracing or foot props, but we can't do that here.

The CPS curriculum says that older children are generally safer in a more upright position, and (paraphrasing here) that if the car seat allows for it an older child is better off NOT being placed in a newborn recline position.

For the same reason, I probably would not ignore the overall 40" height limit on a Dorel seat even if the child could pass the 1" rule, unless I had no other good options (for example FF a child under the age of three is not a good option in my opinion). I'm more comfortable pushing the upper RF limits of a convertible if the seat can be (and is) braced.
 

hope41more

New member
Brigala said:
LOL!

It's because I'm concerned with downward rotation and the risk of the child's head hitting things in front of it. A heavier child will cause the seat to rotate downwards more (which is one reason I am choosing to brace the Radian in my Civic, where I can, rather than opt for the angle adjuster). Downward rotation is the reason we don't have RF seats rated for higher than 45 lbs in the US. In Sweden they can get around it by taking anti-rotation measures such as required bracing or foot props, but we can't do that here.

The CPS curriculum says that older children are generally safer in a more upright position, and (paraphrasing here) that if the car seat allows for it an older child is better off NOT being placed in a newborn recline position.

For the same reason, I probably would not ignore the overall 40" height limit on a Dorel seat even if the child could pass the 1" rule, unless I had no other good options (for example FF a child under the age of three is not a good option in my opinion). I'm more comfortable pushing the upper RF limits of a convertible if the seat can be (and is) braced.
Awesome- thanks!
 

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