WHY don't people get it?

[desisue0131]

A erf 5 year old would cause panic!

I think a lot of bad info is passed down from mom to daughter. In this day and age women(girls) are having babies much younger. I had my first at 17. My mom was only 40 and my brother was 4. Since she had a younger child I assumed she knew about car seats. I had also been installing my brothers car seat for almost 2 years at that point. I knew it needed to be tight. I was taught by my mom to use a locking clip on lap/shoulder belts on the opposite side of the latch plate. We had latch in all the cars so we usually used that. I can't remember if we used the top tethers. I was looking at pictures from when DD was about 2 and her TT was in use.

DD was one of those babies that cried in the car constantly. She was about 7 months old and we moved from va to wa. It was going to be a long drive and I wanted to turn her FF so she wouldn't cry the entire week we were going to be in the car. I remember asking my mom why they have to rf and she had no idea. So I turned her and she stayed that way.

I was 19 when my first was born and I knew nothing about car seats. I used his seat so wrong it scares me to this day. I turned him around at 10 months and it took me years to realize the reason he was so mad in the car was because he wanted to be RF. I make it a goal to help anyone and everyone who will let me now!!

 

[a09]

My cousin just posted pics to sell her teeny tiny 8 month olds infant buckets a few weeks ago and I assumed she had gotten him a convertible. I was so wrong. She just posted pics of him in his nautilus and she is one of those I know everything people so even if we told her it was illegal she would swear it wasn't. It kills me her poor boy has no chance at being a healthy adult with her in charge (think smoking constantly, giving a newborn coffee, "I know what I'm doing"). Uggg

 

[kam1011]

I think people are so used to seeing misuse, that that's what they think is normal. If you were a brand new parent and took your first infant seat out of the box, thinking of the pictures you see on facebook everyday, you'd put your kid in with loose straps and a belly clip and post your own "cute" picture without a second thought. This is also my biggest complaint about the MTV shows (16&pg or Teen Mom) that they zoom in on the kid poorly restrained which I feel is subliminally teaching people to do it wrong. You get so used to seeing it a certain way, it must be right.

I'd always been a fast driver and when I was pregnant with my first I was paranoid that I wasn't a good enough driver to drive around with a baby in the car. So I did tons of research on the best way to ride, the "best seats" (yup I had a collection of Britax), and I went to see a tech before the baby was born and every time we changed something for the first 3.5 years or so (when he told me to stop it, my seats were fine, lol). I showed up when my baby hit 20 pounds at 10 months old, but luckily he told me that she needed to be RF and installed my new convertible seat RF.

People who show up at a check have enough care in them to go there in the first place. It's hard to convince the rest of the world when they're surrounded by bad pics. I think there should be more commercials of proper use, actually showing the seats and stuff. (When I see the occasional commercial, they don't show much)

 

[Judi]

Maybe TIME should put it on the cover
Get someone talking about it!!

The Prodigy has the info on the cover.

 

[tesslouise]

I have a dear friend whose 2 year old is FFing and her 10 month old is RFing but both kids' straps are looser than I have EVER seen. Even when the baby was in an infant seat I could put my arm under the straps, they were so loose. I'm not a tech and I'm not even sure what to say to her. Maybe if she gets a new car I can convince her to come to a safety check with me? Sigh.

 

[hedgefun]

I think too many people see car seat use as a parental decision and not a safety issue. They see it among the lines of whether to start cereal or baby food first, which coat is better in the fall, etc. Usually when I catch someone making a mistake, if they get defensive, they tell me that they will raise their child the way they want.

I think this is a big part of it. I think the other aspect is associating thing like FF and moving to a booster with milestones. I also think the other thing is that people don't really understand the physics of what happens in a crash, so they think loose straps are fine, seatbelt can restrain a 3yo, etc.

 

[Jessica61624]

A lot of people don't know how their own seat belt should fit.

 

[Ninetales]

A lot of people don't know how their own seat belt should fit.

That's sure true. On another board I go to someone was asking why planes only have lap belts and someone answered something to the effect of that it's for turbulence, to keep you down, whereas in a car you move forward, so car belts go across your belly. 0_o

 

[bnsnyde]

Today was a big garage sale in town. Lots of people were buying used carseats that were expired. One guy was lugging one from 2005 he bought that was in terrible shape, terrible! These were people who were low income, and my aunt said "It's that carseat or nothing." Maybe but so sad!

They bought a car. Why not spend $39 or whatever and get a new Scenera? But honestly the ones I spoke to had no idea seats expired.

And the community service cop was circling the block.
There is a huge need in the community for hispanics and carseats. Nearly all the ones I saw them using were expired or otherwise not the right seat for the child, if they even had a seat.

 

[joolsplus3]

A lot of people don't know how their own seat belt should fit.

Amen.
Had a mom today just loudly admit she doesn't make her 7 yo sit in a booster because he's 'so tall'. I said, well, if he's 4-9, he's probably ok (law here is 8 or 4-9), and she said nope, he's just 'so tall!'. She has kids ranging from 21 (no booster law) to 14 (law was 6) to 11 (law was 8) to 7 (law is 8) so I guess old habits die hard, and it's not like anyone ever tries to explain WHY the law gets changed, it just seems like the powers that be are randomly foisting new rules on us

 

[christineka]

There are many reasons. The people who come to car seat checks are usually the ones who are concerned and want what's best and safest for their kids.

It's the ones that don't that are either clueless, believe they are safe drivers and won't be in any accidents, have the "I didn't have a car seat and I survived." mentality, really don't care, or think they know everything about car seats and don't want any help.

I was in the "I know everything about car seats and don't need help" camp, but I love free stuff and was enticed to a seat check by free swim passes. Once I learned what I didn't know, I became obsessed with learning to keep my kids as safe as I could.

Also, a lot of people have no idea how a seatbelt should fit. Yesterday at the seat check in town, the other techs would ask an average sized 8 year old's parent if the seatbelt fit their kid well. The parents all stated it did and I would bet that it didn't. I'd butt in and state the 5 step test. (Those techs really irritate me!)

 

[jeminijad]

Well, it sucks that people don't understand. But I'm going to give my little speech that I give every time a thread like this comes around.

Everyone has their cause(s) that they are passionate about. People feel just as strongly (and have proof) about other topics... say, vaccination. Or unassisted childbirth. Or what have you.

The thing that really sucks is that we are all trying so hard to be open minded that our brains have half fallen out.

 

[LISmama810]

Everyone has their cause(s) that they are passionate about. People feel just as strongly (and have proof) about other topics... say, vaccination. Or unassisted childbirth. Or what have you.

Ok, but those things actually have valid counter-arguments. And people who have an unassisted birth don't do so because they don't know that OBs exist. It's because they've made the conscious (and usually well researched) decision to do so. People who don't use car seats aren't doing so because they've researched the alternatives, it's because they either don't know better or just don't care.

 

[Stelvis]

Ok, but those things actually have valid counter-arguments. And people who have an unassisted birth don't do so because they don't know that OBs exist. It's because they've made the conscious (and usually well researched) decision to do so. People who don't use car seats aren't doing so because they've researched the alternatives, it's because they either don't know better or just don't care.

Many people who don't use car seats properly think they have valid arguments to do so. In some cases they think they've researched it and are making the best decision. The decisions they're making about passenger safety aren't actually grounded in best practice recommendations based on research by the actual bodies who make recommendations. But I wouldn't say they all don't care. Some of them do care, but are just wrong.

 

[Kobain's Mommy]

It seems to be a combination of it won't happen to me, I didn't have a seat and I'm fine, as well as choosing not to learn. In my friend circle it seem to be a lot of choosing not to learn or caring to listen. I'm not saying they don't care about their kids but they thing car seats are options. I'm not even talking about going to the extremes of importing a seat to RF a 5-6 year old. :duck: I'm talking about using the seat they can afford to the maximums. If they can only afford a $40 seat but their 18lb short torso short kid can still RF in that seat. As well as the harness people seem to think that they are going to hurt the kid getting it to tight and the chest clip is to keep the kid from climbing out. They think the book is just a fancy bunch of papers to toss.

That's the one I hear all the time "I turned out fine or my kids turned out fine". I always wonder about the kids that WEREN'T fine, the ones that didn't make it. They aren't around anymore to tell you you're wrong.

That seems to be the biggest one. Even at that 30 years ago people didn't travel like they do now. I grew up middle class and we took four "big" (over 300 miles) vacations between birth and 18. It's almost like a given each kid is going to go on a "big" vacation every year.

Even at 2 my kid has spend more time in the car than I did as a child. Pretty much my parents took me to day care and home. My mom would leave me home with my dad and get groceries. It was a special treat to go to the store and even a bigger one to go out to eat. Things kids take for granted everyday.

I think too many people see car seat use as a parental decision and not a safety issue. They see it among the lines of whether to start cereal or baby food first, which coat is better in the fall, etc. Usually when I catch someone making a mistake, if they get defensive, they tell me that they will raise their child the way they want.

This too. My friends know my stance on car seats. My 2 year old is 35-36" and 31-32lbs. He's still RFing in my van. He would be in DH's truck if I wasn't on top of the airbag, so we had for FF him in there. My BFF has a son that is 18 months old. He might weigh 20lbs if he's sopping wet on a heavy day, he's also not even 30". He went from his SR22 to a FFing seat when he was 10-11 months old. Why? "Because he can't see the DVD screen." She knows it's safer but she thinks it's a decision like choosing to EBF (she refused to even think of letting him use a bottle) vs formula feeding or even using a bottle for BM. When her kids spends even more time in the car than my kids, the live on a gravel road that people drive way to fast and don't look for other drivers.

 

[aschofield]

A lot of the people in my life seem to think that best practices are "taking it too far" there is safety, and then there is wrapping your kid up in bubble wrap. People (in my life at least) seem to think anything above the legal minimums is bubble wrapping.

 

[agave]

For me I think my ignorance helped I had friends with kids but rarely rode in the car with kids. I knew RF was safer and babies rode in buckets and that people took the buckets everywhere. I read my manuals when my oldest turned 1 she was over 20 lbs the pediatrician said I could turn her around. I told her my seat had a 34" minimum to FF she had never heard of such a minimum and said it was fine.
Having no idea what was normal and reading the manual I got it mostly right.

Since having kids I've realized it's for the best I never asked any of my friends for car seat advice.

 

[Brianna]

I'm assuming most of them don't understand crash dynamics, and most of them probably don't know that car crashes are the leading killer of children.

 

[VoodooChile]

I'm assuming most of them don't understand crash dynamics, and most of them probably don't know that car crashes are the leading killer of children.

And/or have never been in a crash much worse than a simple fender-bender, and have just thought, "that wasn't so bad." Not understanding that babies'/children's bodies are different from adults'. And they've probably never seen a vehicle that's been ripped apart from a severe crash, or if they have, we're back to the "it'll never happen to me" mentality.

 

[cantabdad]

Certainly one can blame parents who are willfully ignorant, ignore advice, think their kids are invincible, etc.

But it also seems that (around here, at least) there is an equally large group of parents who are trying to be conscientious, but who are bewildered by the complexity here. There are infant seats and convertible seats and booster seats; seatbelt installations and LATCH; ALR belts and non-ALR belts; the intricacies of locking clips, chest clips, buckle tongues, seat bights, etc.

Each vehicle is different and each seat has its own idiosyncracies -- our Radian, for example has a "Safe Stop" that MUST be used in some situations but MUST NOT be used in others. It's not uncommon to require a rolled-up towel to achieve the proper angle or for a particular seat to just be incompatible with a vehicle for some reason.

Yes, it helps to read the manual, but I've found errors in the manuals, too. In looking up lap-belt installation instructions for our Britax Roundabout, the manual includes a line about pulling on the shoulder portion of the belt. This is a lap-only belt -- what shoulder portion? And most of the manuals bury the important info about locking clips in a separate section.

It's also difficult to keep up with changing recommendations. A lot of people who dutifully research the exact region-of-origin in their kids' organic green beans are still only vaguely aware of the new push to keep kids RF until 2.

Professional communities who are in a position to help (police, pediatricians, transportation departments, and others) are still not giving this the attention it deserves. For example, our pediatrician's office provides a little info sheet at each check-up, always noting the need for a carseat along with vaccinations, developmental milestones, etc. But they certainly don't view it as within their duties to go and check the installation.

Likewise, in our city, the police department has severely cut back on installation clinics and I've never heard of anyone being pulled over for improper CRS use.

At the federal level, NHTSA notes the need for carseats, but their installation videos give the impression that you just need to click the LATCH connectors in. To be useful and realistic, they need to actually show the parent pushing down with all of their might on the seat as they tighten.

Our kids log more miles by air than by car, and it's shocking how many flight attendants are completely misinformed about CRS use -- and they are professionals. Imagine how confused the parents must be.

I'm not making excuses for people, just pointing out that it's everyone's responsibility to make things better. Automakers, for their part, could help by developing built-in carseats that would be appropriate to the vehicle and eliminate installation issues, but for whatever reason (cost? liability?) they have not done so.