The upright Radian install trick

jjordan

Moderator
My seat (Altima) is like Anna's too. Although the RN is currently in the center and it's shaped differently, so I'll have to check.

I will definitely be keeping an eye on this thread.

And, seriously, how many weird rules can one seat have? I'm thinking about seats whose stickers have the wrong weight limit, use of safestop, RF boot, use an angle adjuster if you need to, LATCH weight limits, head wing positioning on the models with wings... I'm sure I could think of more if I gave it a few more minutes!

I have appreciated my radians, but...
 
ADS

An Aurora

Senior Community Member
Yes, but you may be hard pressed to find the ca65 w/ dual level lines on the shelf and even if you do there's still the 40" thing. The point is that there's really not an affordable option that will be a good erf alternative for a lot of kids so portraying the radian as dangerous because it can't be forced into compatibility might be counterproductive without suggesting an alternative other than ff.

Oh, I was typing when you posted. If you consider ff safer than erf in a radian, then my point is irrelevant so I digress.

:confused: Okay then.

The Radian is incompatible in my car according to Diono. He's outgrown the CCO RF. Nothing else fits.
 

Syllieann

New member
:confused: Okay then.

The Radian is incompatible in my car according to Diono. He's outgrown the CCO RF. Nothing else fits.

I confused that you were switching ff due to incompatibility w/ the other posts about not trusting the company or wanting to use the radian at all due to the company's response.
 

An Aurora

Senior Community Member
I confused that you were switching ff due to incompatibility w/ the other posts about not trusting the company or wanting to use the radian at all due to the company's response.

I will admit, I have a chip on my shoulder towards Sunshine Kids/Diono following years of exeperience with them (over recline issues, harnesses that wouldn't tighten, and damage to my bases from every day use) in addition to the huge snafu with the superLATCH issues last year (which didn't affect me personally but certainly made me wary of the company). However, I am using my Radian RF in my car since it was the only thing that worked for my son in my car. Now apparently it doesn't work, so yeah, he will be FF in there until this blows over and it's confirmed that it is an acceptable install, or the Foonf comes out, or I get another vehicle.
 

Starlight

Senior Community Member
Well, crap. So now which narrow seat do i shove kids 5 & 6 in to keep them RFing in my 'burb? I was just getting ready to buy 2 new Radian's to replace my '05 and '07 models, but they're both going to be hitting the trash. Between Russ telling me last year that his carseats don't really need to be replaced when they hit the expiry date and this nonsense, I'm just done. TBH, I'd sooner put my 2yo dd in a Graco Nautilus FF than keep her in this seat anymore. :twocents:
 

MonkeysMom615

New member
I have the same type of bights that Auroroa has and I have a rock solid seat belt install that way. So much so that I've put holes in my fabric on my seats with the stupid feet of the boot. Bah.
 

mom of six

Active member
Well, crap. So now which narrow seat do i shove kids 5 & 6 in to keep them RFing in my 'burb? I was just getting ready to buy 2 new Radian's to replace my '05 and '07 models, but they're both going to be hitting the trash. Between Russ telling me last year that his carseats don't really need to be replaced when they hit the expiry date and this nonsense, I'm just done. TBH, I'd sooner put my 2yo dd in a Graco Nautilus FF than keep her in this seat anymore. :twocents:

Knowing what kind of seats a 'burb has I do not see why you would have a problem installing your Radians RF in the seat bight with the angle adjuster. It does not have the above-the-crease-bight issue like the Japanese (Honda, Acura, Toyota) cars seem to have.



:twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents:
I think there is a bit of over reacting going on in this thread. The Radian has always required a love/hate relationship :fencing:but I think the higher RF weight limit makes it a seat to make friends with.:twocents: Mistakes in the manual or mis-speaking of employees does not make the car seat itself any less safe. The *seat* is tested (and does exceptionally well) not the employees or their customer service. Yeah, I know install is part of he safety of the seat but have there been any known instances of the Radian over rotating and causing injury in a real world crash? It is not like the Touriva of old where an issue with the seat was directly linked to real world injuries.

We all know about CYA. My husband is an engineer at a big airplane manufacturer in Western Washington. Because of him I have a little insight in to the engineering process. They have a huge CYA responsibility and they cannot make changes and suggestions willie-nilly. The Radian was designed to sit in the seat bight. When an engineer is asked a question about a different kind of install he will answer with the *very* safest answer. They cannot think outside the box unless they diagram it in 3D first. They always err on the side of safety. Prehaps this is a time for a *parental decision* not unlike those that go along with the Dorel seats and the level line or moving the seat up a click or two in the Mazda 5.

If we all give Diono some feedback (while remembering our manners) I am confident that they will respond with a redesign or retesting to answer the *above-the-crease-bight* issue. But it will take time because all engineering processes take TIME.

Happily, my Radian sits in the bight (although not as far as it used to prior to the AA) so I guess for me this is a non issue.
 

Pixels

New member
Diono did NOT say that having the feet outside the bight will cause overrotation. I'm not sure where that came from, but it's not true. What they said is that having the feet in the bight causes the feet to absorb some of the forces. I believe that the seat is safe either way, but safeR with the feet in the bight.
 

HaileysMommy

New member
I love how I'm finding out that my seats have been installed wrong for over 2 years now!!!!

I need to know about the angle adjuster. It causes my exes boot to come completely out of the bite and mine isn't "wedged" in the bite with the AA under it. Both these seats will over recline if I have to wedge the boot into the bite. I am super pissed off that I am having to go reinstall DDs seat tonight!
 

Stelvis

New member
Starlight said:
Well, crap. So now which narrow seat do i shove kids 5 & 6 in to keep them RFing in my 'burb? I was just getting ready to buy 2 new Radian's to replace my '05 and '07 models, but they're both going to be hitting the trash. Between Russ telling me last year that his carseats don't really need to be replaced when they hit the expiry date and this nonsense, I'm just done. TBH, I'd sooner put my 2yo dd in a Graco Nautilus FF than keep her in this seat anymore. :twocents:

Wait, what? He told you his precious Radians don't expire?
 

Syllieann

New member
Diono did NOT say that having the feet outside the bight will cause overrotation. I'm not sure where that came from, but it's not true. What they said is that having the feet in the bight causes the feet to absorb some of the forces. I believe that the seat is safe either way, but safeR with the feet in the bight.

I believe it could cause overrotation based on the design of the seat. Diono NOT saying it would cause overrotation is not the same as diono saying it will not cause overrotation. Diono DID say the feet need to be in the bight. I would not use the seat w/ the feet outside the bight.
 

Ladyl

New member
Diono did NOT say that having the feet outside the bight will cause overrotation. I'm not sure where that came from, but it's not true. What they said is that having the feet in the bight causes the feet to absorb some of the forces. I believe that the seat is safe either way, but safeR with the feet in the bight.

That's sort of my interpretation too. I think I may make a parental decision to use it with the foot out of the bight. :duck:
 

tiggercat

New member
Is there going to be some kind of public comment about this from Diono/allana? I've helped countless parent buy front seat room in this way, and I'd like to be able to let people know/have something a bit more official than a c&p from a private Facebook group.
I also feel that if their own pictures are incorrect, they need to send every owner a new manual with correct diagrams and clear warnings on this issue.

Sent from my iPod touch using Car-Seat.Org
 

gigi

New member
I think we shouldn't have to guess how to use their seats! It is ridiculous!

This stuff makes me so angry because the average parent that actually tries is reading the manual and following the diagram! Outrageous for it to be wrong.
 

kidzndogz

New member
Who knows. Allana stated this info, and when people got upset she posted multiple times saying not to worry about it and go enjoy your weekend. Uh, if a radian is your only seat and now you have no clue if it's going to perform to its maximum potential (I don't care if it's still "safe" with the feet outside the bight. When you spend money on a seat you expect to be able to use it for its maximum safety. That's why we rear face. Safer is fine...but I'm going for safest. And the possibility of unnecessarily transferring loads to a child is unacceptable) then the whole thing is ridiculous and extremely unprofessional. I appreciate that she is trying to communicate but at this point an official statement from the company is required as is replacement of all manuals.
 

HaileysMommy

New member
kidzndogz said:
Who knows. Allana stated this info, and when people got upset she posted multiple times saying not to worry about it and go enjoy your weekend. Uh, if a radian is your only seat and now you have no clue if it's going to perform to its maximum potential (I don't care if it's still "safe" with the feet outside the bight. When you spend money on a seat you expect to be able to use it for its maximum safety. That's why we rear face. Safer is fine...but I'm going for safest. And the possibility of unnecessarily transferring loads to a child is unacceptable) then the whole thing is ridiculous and extremely unprofessional. I appreciate that she is trying to communicate but at this point an official statement from the company is required as is replacement of all manuals.

Exactly! I was so pissed to have to haul my big butt outside at midnight and install the maestro and take the radian out. Thank God I have a ton of seats!
 

Kecia

Admin - CPST Instructor
While I agree that a more official statement is required if there is an error in the owner's manual, I also wouldn't be running to replace the CR or turn the kid FF if you were satisfied with your Radian and its installation on Friday.

None of us drive a test bench and the fact of the matter is that we just don't know how the Radian will perform in a (insert your vehicle make/model/year here) with a child who is (insert child's wt/ht/proportion here).

Let's consider the possibilities of what could go wrong that could increase injury risk to the child....

Toes of base not wedged firmly into seat bight:
Apparently this is how the seat is tested on the bench for 213 compliance. It makes sense that it could help stabilize the CR as it makes its initial downward rotation in a frontal crash. How much of a difference does it make? We don't know.

Does it matter more for a 42 lbs kid who is near the RF ht limit than for an average 2-3 year old? Does it matter more if your seat is already close to 45 degrees pre-crash? Is the concern with over-rotation? If so, is that actually a major concern?

Don't get me wrong - I know the CR will fail one of the very few 213 compliance standards for RF seats if it rotates more than 70 degrees from vertical during the sled test. But if the child still has 4" of shell above his/her head and the harness is snug and the kid doesn't go anywhere, is over-rotation a major concern? Plus, TBH, in most real-life crashes - a big 'ol Radian is probably going to contact something in front of it (front seat or console) before it's able to rotate 70* or more. As we all know, the test sled doesn't have a front seat so it's just another example of 213 testing not mimicking the reality of what would happen in a crash in your vehicle.

I think we need more info before anyone can venture to guess if this is a real problem or not. At the moment, *I* wouldn't be concerned about increased injury risk to a child in a Radian installed without feet wedged into the bight (assuming you had a compelling reason to do it that way and it was otherwise a solid install) unless they were close to the wt and ht limits AND the seat was close to a max recline angle as well. Since the angle adjuster is currently available ATM - that would be my first suggestion if this is your current Radian situation.

Look, I understand that everyone wants as close to a guarantee as possible that their child is going to walk away from a serious wreck with nothing more than a scratch or a bruise. I'm no exception. And many of us here (myself included) love to over-analyze everything because...well, it makes us feel better. But that's not reality. There are too many variables in each specific crash scenario. And 213 fixtures and standards are so antiquated that they don't give us much useful info on how a CR would perform in a real crash in a modern vehicle backseat.

I stand by my original comment which was that if you were happy with your RF Radian install a few days ago - don't get too rattled by this new info until we hear more from the company in a more official capacity.

I will encourage Diono to evaluate the situation and share info as quickly as possible.
 
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