The Toyota recall

Guest

New member
Well, that's debatable. Toyota is being investigated right now because while they were telling the public it's gas pedals and floor mats, they were admitting to Congress that they don't know what the issue is. So I don't know that they have acknowledged their mistake, since they don't even necessarily know what their mistake is.

Acting contrite when you get stuck with your hand in the cookie jar isn't the same as "coming forward."

The rest of it is all PR, and not very good PR at that.

I'm not saying Toyota is an evil company or anything, but their handling of this has been atrocious.

I agree. Their handling of this has been atrocious. They stopped selling the cars because they were legally required to.

I'm only NOT raking them over the coals because I don't think any of the other big car companies would have acted any different and cuz I think the issue is pretty overblown.
 
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LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
I'm only NOT raking them over the coals because I don't think any of the other big car companies would have acted any different and cuz I think the issue is pretty overblown.

Agreed. The sudden acceleration issue doesn't concern me much. It's pretty unlikely to happen. Other companies not only would probably handle it the same way, but are probably all sweeping SOMETHING under the carpet as we speak. Toyota just happens to be the one that got caught.

As with the recent Dorel recall, I blame NHTSA for much of the problem. Oversight, shmoversight.
 

tl01

New member
Don't know if this is true or not but someone on the radio said that prices of used Toyotas are down about 3% and that they expect them to stay that way for 3-6 months. I would have expected them to decrease a little more.
 

tl01

New member
SE Toyota (they own the franchise rites to all dealers in Florida, Georgia, Alabama and the Carolina's) came out with owner loyalty rebates this week - if you or an immediate family member own or lease a Toyota or Scion you get a $1,000 owner loyalty rebate that can be used towards the purchase of a new Camry, Corolla, or Tundra - this rebate CAN be combined with the low interest financing and the lease program - WHICH THEY NEVER DO. We are offering some deeper discounts on the vehicles as well - and we still have customers coming in and buying every day.

Yes, Toyota screwed up. But they have also come forward, acknowledged their mistake and are doing the proper things to make it right - I have to give them credit for that. Its not often that you see the president (Mr Toyoda) of a large company come forward and appologize publicly and vow to make things right. And while this may have tarnished their reputation right now, Toyota will continue to prove to be a reliable vehicle....in the past couple of weeks we have had more customers email in saying that even with the bad press they will continue to purchase Toyota's because they have only had good experience with them. One customer emailed us yesterday to tell us about his 1998 Tacoma with 302,000 miles on it - all he's had done to the car are oil changes and tires - if thats not reliability I don't know what is :)

I think that Toyota has admitted there is a problem and they have possible solution but they aren't entirely sure they've got the right solution. I've heard stories from someone who is associated with Toyota which makes it sound like the issue might be in the computer system and not necessarily the gas pedal. It will be interesting to see if the fix actually solves the problem. Only time will tell.
 

SavsMom

New member
Correct - I do. I have enjoyed selling them, but have no loyalty to the brand. My father was Ford/Chrysler dealer for 25 years, I drive a Subaru, and would love a new Accord - lol!

In the interest of full disclosure, you work at a Toyota dealership, correct?
 

Guest

New member
I think there is more to the story then we are getting from Toyota at this point.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/11/prius.cruise.control/?hpt=T1

Hard to say. From a CA driver, those stories are hardly what I'd call "damning evidence". Particularly as you read the end of the article and one of those couples say it happened years ago and 5 yrs later and over 100,000 miles, it hasn't happened again. Seriously, that's the "worst" example of the Prius problem CNN could find?

I keep waiting for a smoking gun, but what keeps coming out is more cork gun than real gun. I'm starting to see why Car&Driver has those angry op-ed pieces out right now.
 

Guest

New member
See, what's a "fluke" and what's a "problem"?

My personal opinion is that in the US, the number of crappy drivers is about equal to the number of people who use car seats wrong. Most are unintentional. Some are intentional (of which I admit to not being an ideal driver, and also that I do it knowingly). Plus, I used to work as a DA in traffic court. I've talked to countless drivers and read tons of accident reports and then talked to various parties and their own versions of what happened.

Depending on a numerous number of variables, including road condition, traffic, condition of the tires, etc, when you resume cruise control (or even without pushing any buttons), cruise can go faster than you intended. It's not exactly a sophisticated system.

Now, based on those two stories in the article, you've got an unintended acceleration of about 15 mph. That's on the higher end of what I've seen, but not too ridiculous (particularly in CA).

Now, it's entirely possible these people knew exactly how fast they were going. However, considering that most people have an insanely inflated opinion of their driving skills, combined with a national tendency to never accept any personal blame, along with the known fact that people under stress often can only focus on a limited number of things, let's just say I'm taking their numbers with a large grain of salt. Assuming the true story is somewhere in the middle, let's cut that number in half (and that's being overly generous IMO). That puts it at about 7-9 mph faster than expected. Totally reasonable due to "normal" factors based on my personal experience.

The article on the cruise control problem is nearly worthless. Combined with the relatively tiny number of cases out there, along with the fact that the Prius, being a hybrid, has a markedly different driving experience than "normal" cars (thus throwing off people even more in them thinking things are weird when they're actually normal for a hybrid), and I think the cruise control thing is a non-issue.

I'm more interested in the pedal problem cuz I think there might be something there. However, there just isn't any good info out there. Might never be.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
Oh, I wasn't even really commenting on cruise control. I admit that it freaks me out, and I won't even use it. I also agree there are times (on the rare occasions I have used it) that it has "felt" like it was going faster than it really was.

I would think, though, that most people understand how headlights turn on and off, so headlights suddenly cutting out sounds more likely to be an electronic problem than user error.

Couple that with the fact that gads of automotive experts (of which I am not) are blaming the sudden acceleration problems on electronic throttles, and, well, I'm inclined to believe them.

We had a Prius for a little more than a year. I loved that car more than any other I've ever owned. But I did feel like I was driving a giant computer, and there was something very unsettling about that.
 

Guest

New member
Oh yeah, the headlight thing is prolly some weird electrical bug. It's just not as safety critical as a runaway cruise control.

But yeah, the Prius is like a big computer. It's very different from a "regular" car. Even basic things like the brakes are different. I'm sure the total package has most Prius drivers a bit unsettled, and once news is out there might be an electrical problem of some sort, some people are gonna switch from "I guess that weird thing is normal" to "oh my gosh, the computer car has a mind of its own!" And the really hard part is separating what really is normal (but weird) to what's really a problem.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
Oh yeah, the headlight thing is prolly some weird electrical bug. It's just not as safety critical as a runaway cruise control.

But yeah, the Prius is like a big computer. It's very different from a "regular" car. Even basic things like the brakes are different. I'm sure the total package has most Prius drivers a bit unsettled, and once news is out there might be an electrical problem of some sort, some people are gonna switch from "I guess that weird thing is normal" to "oh my gosh, the computer car has a mind of its own!" And the really hard part is separating what really is normal (but weird) to what's really a problem.

The headlight thing might not be AS critical as runaway cruise control, but it can certainly be dangerous and is absolutely something to recall a car over (if it's found to actually be an issue). More people use headlights than cruise control, too.

If anything good comes out of this, it's that I finally no longer regret having traded in the Prius. :p (I'm sort of kidding. I really did love that car and still miss it a bit. Just not as much!)
 

Guest

New member
The headlight thing might not be AS critical as runaway cruise control, but it can certainly be dangerous and is absolutely something to recall a car over (if it's found to actually be an issue). More people use headlights than cruise control, too.

If anything good comes out of this, it's that I finally no longer regret having traded in the Prius. :p (I'm sort of kidding. I really did love that car and still miss it a bit. Just not as much!)

Oh, it absolutely is grounds for a recall. I was just thinking in terms of the media frenzy over certain recalls. I think a runaway car deserves more hysteria than a headlight that turns off randomly. Both can be dangerous, just the runaway car is a bit more sensational. The runaway car can be a serious danger in both isolated areas and crowded areas. For headlights, it's really only a serious issue if you're in a remote area and your headlights are your only source of lighting. In crowded areas, there's enough ambient light from streetlamps and other cars that if your headlights went out, it's not that big a deal.
 

erikanohelani

New member
One thing that does upset me about my '10 Toyota is that I didn't realize the safety features it "does not" have. People's lives would probably have been saved had the brakes been able to override the acceleration... a feature in other makes of vehicles.

I told my fiance (who still wanted to buy another Toyota later this year as planned before this whole recall) that there will be a lot of speculation on what Toyota did and didn't do or what the actual problem may be... but what cannot be argued are the actual specs of the vehicle. Such as the lack of brake override on Toyotas.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704197104575051261910244700.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Also, many of the Toyotas recalled are NOT the ones reported to have problems!

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusiness/idUSTRE61904Q20100210

Quote from article: "More than half of the 2,262 complaints compiled by Safety Research involve vehicles that Toyota has not recalled."


I am sure Toyota will come back, but they sure will have to earn back their reputation in reliability and safety. Until then we are looking at other brands.

I was behind Toyota at first... until I read more into it.
 

SavsMom

New member
Don't quote me on this - BUT, a few weeks ago, when all of the recall madness started hitting the dealership I work at (the phones got crazy for a few days but most people were very very calm about it) - we had to watch a video from Toyota (the big wigs) about how the recall was going to be handled - if I remember they are working on the programing the vehicles computer system so that if the brake is pressed while the accelerator is enganged that it will cut fuel to the engine, this would be put in place for the models affected by the recall - and they are going to make it standard on those being manufactured. If my memory serves me correct they were trying to figure out the programming for those vehicles that are already on the road - let me clarify this with one of the master service techs over the weekend and I will let you know for sure - but I think this is in the works -

One thing that does upset me about my '10 Toyota is that I didn't realize the safety features it "does not" have. People's lives would probably have been saved had the brakes been able to override the acceleration... a feature in other makes of vehicles.

I told my fiance (who still wanted to buy another Toyota later this year as planned before this whole recall) that there will be a lot of speculation on what Toyota did and didn't do or what the actual problem may be... but what cannot be argued are the actual specs of the vehicle. Such as the lack of brake override on Toyotas.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704197104575051261910244700.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Also, many of the Toyotas recalled are NOT the ones reported to have problems!

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusiness/idUSTRE61904Q20100210

Quote from article: "More than half of the 2,262 complaints compiled by Safety Research involve vehicles that Toyota has not recalled."


I am sure Toyota will come back, but they sure will have to earn back their reputation in reliability and safety. Until then we are looking at other brands.

I was behind Toyota at first... until I read more into it.
 

SavsMom

New member
I have to agree with you on the whole computer thing. There are so many computers involved in cars these days - they can diagnose and repair problems using a USB port anymore - lol! It wouldn't surprise me a bit to see quite a few more recalls from all brands for computer/electronic issues. And they are only going to progress that way more and more.

Oh, I wasn't even really commenting on cruise control. I admit that it freaks me out, and I won't even use it. I also agree there are times (on the rare occasions I have used it) that it has "felt" like it was going faster than it really was.

I would think, though, that most people understand how headlights turn on and off, so headlights suddenly cutting out sounds more likely to be an electronic problem than user error.

Couple that with the fact that gads of automotive experts (of which I am not) are blaming the sudden acceleration problems on electronic throttles, and, well, I'm inclined to believe them.

We had a Prius for a little more than a year. I loved that car more than any other I've ever owned. But I did feel like I was driving a giant computer, and there was something very unsettling about that.
 

Guest

New member
Don't quote me on this - BUT, a few weeks ago, when all of the recall madness started hitting the dealership I work at (the phones got crazy for a few days but most people were very very calm about it) - we had to watch a video from Toyota (the big wigs) about how the recall was going to be handled - if I remember they are working on the programing the vehicles computer system so that if the brake is pressed while the accelerator is enganged that it will cut fuel to the engine, this would be put in place for the models affected by the recall - and they are going to make it standard on those being manufactured. If my memory serves me correct they were trying to figure out the programming for those vehicles that are already on the road - let me clarify this with one of the master service techs over the weekend and I will let you know for sure - but I think this is in the works -

I'll ask too, but I highly doubt they'll do it for existing cars. Maybe on next model year's cars on or so.
 

erikanohelani

New member
Don't quote me on this - BUT, a few weeks ago, when all of the recall madness started hitting the dealership I work at (the phones got crazy for a few days but most people were very very calm about it) - we had to watch a video from Toyota (the big wigs) about how the recall was going to be handled - if I remember they are working on the programing the vehicles computer system so that if the brake is pressed while the accelerator is enganged that it will cut fuel to the engine, this would be put in place for the models affected by the recall - and they are going to make it standard on those being manufactured. If my memory serves me correct they were trying to figure out the programming for those vehicles that are already on the road - let me clarify this with one of the master service techs over the weekend and I will let you know for sure - but I think this is in the works -

THANKS =)

Keep us updated
 

SavsMom

New member
Alright - so I do have good news! The dealership I work at is already implementing the "override" fix in the Camry's that are affected by the recall (2007-2010's) - they are waiting to get the information for the programming on the others (Corolla & Matrix) - as soon as they have that they will beging to do the update for those vehicles affected by the recall as well - so that fix is coming to those vehicles affected by the recall, including those that are on the road already.

Erikanohelani - call your local dealer, specifically the service department, and ask them about it, it is something they should be very well aware of - we had to watch the video in our sales meeting - if they tell you otherwise let me know and I will see if there is a way for me to get you in touch with someone that can help you :thumbsup:

THANKS =)

Keep us updated
 

erikanohelani

New member
Alright - so I do have good news! The dealership I work at is already implementing the "override" fix in the Camry's that are affected by the recall (2007-2010's) - they are waiting to get the information for the programming on the others (Corolla & Matrix) - as soon as they have that they will beging to do the update for those vehicles affected by the recall as well - so that fix is coming to those vehicles affected by the recall, including those that are on the road already.

Erikanohelani - call your local dealer, specifically the service department, and ask them about it, it is something they should be very well aware of - we had to watch the video in our sales meeting - if they tell you otherwise let me know and I will see if there is a way for me to get you in touch with someone that can help you :thumbsup:


Thanks for the information! I will make sure to inquire about it. I have a 2010 Corolla so I'm guessing it will take just a little longer for the programming. It is great to know they are taking that safety issue seriously.
 

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