Question Taxi trouble - no tether anchor- in Canada

[rmcbryan]

I live in a small town in Canada. There is one taxi company. I own two seats, both Britax, and my 4.5 year old son, 39 lbs, 41" fits both. One is the rear/forward convertable Decathalon and the other is the harness/booster Frontier XT. I love both seats.

The taxi company (ironically use the same name as my birth name!) is extremely reluntant to allow the use of car seats. In my province the law states that taxi's are excempt from using child seats but also that the guardian is responsible for ensuring that a child is properly secured in any car including taxis.

The van has a lap shoulder belts (no LATCH) but I have to carry a locking clip to use the l/s belt. They don't have a tether anchor. I am trying to figure out my best bet with my little guy. He is on the top harness guide in the Marathon (he will never reach 65 lbs before outgrowning the seat!) and can only use the harness mode in the Frontier at his current weight.

Issue:

Both seats state they require a top tether. What is the best seat and installation for this situation?

On a side note, the driver was really concerned that he wouldn't pass inspection if I ripped the seat while I pressed my weight in to the seat to get that tight fit with the locking clip, top tether not installed. (No latch clips) So then I asked he passes inspection if he does not have an anchor for car seat and he said he still passes them. Apparently, whatever gov't agency he is referring too (if it were true) cares more about appearance than actual safety of the children who ride in taxi cabs.

A different driver, same company, perhaps his grouchy wife argued that she has driven for 20 years... well so have I. And then she told me I was using the wrong seat. I put my kid in a car seat because it is safe, it's the law and I am the responsible party!

I have no other options for taxi cabs in my town!

 

[selinajean]

Is there a 3rd row bench in the van? If so, perhaps you could tether off to the seatbelts back there.

 

[Pixels]

If you, as the guardian, are required to properly restrain the child in the taxi and the taxi does not have tether anchors, then you cannot put the child forward facing harnessed. As you said, the child has to be properly restrained, which means tethered.

Do you know the year/make/model of vehicle? Or can you take a guess? We can tell you where the tethers are supposed to be. If the vehicle is newer than 2002 then there should be an anchor. I can't really see the manufacturer going back and taking the anchor out.

If you can't tether, then your only choices are rear facing or booster. How old, tall, and heavy is your son?

 

[TechnoGranola]

Most Canadian vehicles have had a location for tether anchors for a long time, longer than their U.S. counterparts I believe. Both my 1989 Honda and my 1991 Ford had tether anchor locations. So, even though you don't see a tether anchor, it's highly likely there is a spot for one, they just haven't had it installed.

Usually taxi fleets keep their vehicles fairly current and this one sounds older if it doesn't actually have a visible anchor.

He's too heavy, and likely too tall as well, to rear-face in your Decathalon and he can't use the Fronter in booster mode since he's not 40#. So, you're in a bit of a pickle.

Have you called the company directly and spoken to a manager or the owner? Maybe there are other drivers with tether anchors and you could request one of those when you call?

 

[snowbird25ca]

I'm with techno - how old is the fleet of vehicles? I they are truly having to pass inspection for the interior of the vehicle I can't see any way it could be over 10yrs old, or probably even 5 or 6yrs considering the abuse taxi's get...

I'm also questioning though if you need to use a locking clip - if the vehicle was made in 1996 or newer then it has locking seatbelts. If it's older than a 96, then you may be out of luck on the top tethers depending on the model - Ford minivans had top tethers as far back as 1994 right from the factory. They were located on the underside of the seats. (I know this only because it sticks out in my mind that I needed to use a locking clip but they'd put in top tether anchors so long before they were required.)

I'd request the minivan if you have a choice and if there's no top tether, then tether to the seatbelt in the 3rd row. If you can provide us with a little more info then we can possibly give info specific to the typical vehicle you get as a taxi. (Make/model/year if it's possible.)

 

[bubbaray]

I'd weigh him with winter clothes on. I'd bet he's 40# with boots, KWIM?

Then I'd use a HBB. It will be easier to install and use, faster for in/out of the taxi AND you can sit in the back of the taxi with him to make sure he uses his "booster manners". I'd try the Graco Turbo high back booster (make sure you screw in the arm rests).

 

[rmcbryan]

Is there a 3rd row bench in the van? If so, perhaps you could tether off to the seatbelts back there.

The vehicals in his fleet are very old models. He has a car which appears to have tether anchor, but usually he drives the van, which is a slightly newer but still older model. This vehical has the old style shoulder belts. I tested if they lock and they don't.

I am not sure how I would anchor it to the seat belt in the third row seats.

Even though he is 41 " (max is 48") he will out grow that Decathlon on the harness strap height within 6 months, but then that is why I have the new seat in waiting, but while he still fits, the Decathlon is still an option. It is the lighter, shorter seat, so without a tether and using a locking clip, I can get the best installation with the old car that didn't think about car seats. The built in shoulder belt stabilizer that comes with the seat isn't as tight an installation, because it still allows a little bit of movement. I can use the locking clip near the seat belt connector and that is truly snug!

On Monday, I will call Transport Canada and see who has the inspection authority and whether or not they need to have at least one car in the fleet to accomodate car seats.

 

[Pixels]

Britax does not allow the use of a locking clip on its seats with built-in lockoffs, which the Decathlon has. You can use the locking clip with the Frontier but not the Decathlon. A little bit of movement is okay, it doesn't have to be rock-the-car solid. Less than an inch of movement at the belt path.

 

[rmcbryan]

The other subtle but real issue is that this town is very small and isolated and if a service provider is ticked off at you, they won't serve you, because there are no other options (for nearly everything including food, gas, coffee house!). It is the law of the small isolated town to be polite and unquestioning; workers are slack and expensive because everything is monopolized. This is not the first time that I have made a request for a change to serve me and had a big problem in this town (I actually can think of many issues that would not have happened in a city)

The last interaction I had with the taxi company resulted in a fare increase; a car-seat-crazy-mom tax of one dollar added to my fare.

 

[rmcbryan]

Britax does not allow the use of a locking clip on its seats with built-in lockoffs, which the Decathlon has. You can use the locking clip with the Frontier but not the Decathlon. A little bit of movement is okay, it doesn't have to be rock-the-car solid. Less than an inch of movement at the belt path.

The lock offs work fine if the seat is tethered properly. It is when it is not rear tethered it is loose. The car seats give you options to install the seat, but the rear tether seems to be something that is difficult to opt out.

Is the rear tether optional for the Decathlon? Is any canadian approved seat have an optional tether? (Decathlon is not approved in Canada- actually, but I won't repeat the mistake I made if I do need to buy another seat just for the cab)

Also good seats in Canada cost over $350. (The cheaper, flimsier seats are in the $150-200 range.) I am wondering how people can afford to have a warehouse of seats available to them! I can't afford to insure and drive my car, so I have to use a taxi a couple times a week and I expect to be able to keep my son safe.

 

[TechnoGranola]

The lock offs work fine if the seat is tethered properly. It is when it is not rear tethered it is loose. The car seats give you options to install the seat, but the rear tether seems to be something that is difficult to opt out.

Is the rear tether optional for the Decathlon? Is any canadian approved seat have an optional tether? (Decathlon is not approved in Canada- actually, but I won't repeat the mistake I made if I do need to buy another seat just for the cab)

I am confused when you mention the seat isn't sturdy when not rear-facing tethered as I believe the Decathalon only goes to 35# rear-facing so your child would have outgrown the seat rear-facing. So you would be using the seat forward-facing correct?

Rear-facing tethering is not required for the Britax seats; it is optional. The Canadian tech curriculum actually discourages rear-tethering to a NON-approved rear tether location and there aren't any designated rear-tether locations in Canadian vehicles (wait, maybe there are some Volvo's that have it). Not to imply that rear tethering isn't safe; it's just a parental decision to tether to a non-approved tether location. Definitely not required though.

Forward-facing tethering IS required in Canada. In the U.S., there are seats that can be installed without being tethered rear-facing, the manual will tell you wether or not the Decathalon is one of those. Regardless though, it's illegal to not have a forward-facing harnessed seat tethered here.

Also good seats in Canada cost over $350. (The cheaper, flimsier seats are in the $150-200 range.) I am wondering how people can afford to have a warehouse of seats available to them! I can't afford to insure and drive my car, so I have to use a taxi a couple times a week and I expect to be able to keep my son safe.

That isn't true. There are some awesome and safe seats available in Canada that aren't expensive Britax seats. The First Years True Fit (convertible) comes to mind, also the Graco My Ride (convertible) and Graco Nautilus (combo). I've owned all 3 and prefer them to any Britax I have tried because they work better in my vehicle and for my child. They aren't flimsy at all. I do also own a Britax Frontier XT so I am definitely not anti-Britax.

 

[rmcbryan]

Where can I get some kind of evidence that rear tethering is required in Canada, then I can show it to the taxi. I have to petition the company to get the anchor installed (they can use the extra dollar per fare to pay for it!)

I have no choice in my seat options currently than to tether the forward facing seats. I'll let my friend know about the less expensive seats that are more study.:yeahthatlove:

 

[bubbaray]

The other subtle but real issue is that this town is very small and isolated and if a service provider is ticked off at you, they won't serve you, because there are no other options (for nearly everything including food, gas, coffee house!). It is the law of the small isolated town to be polite and unquestioning; workers are slack and expensive because everything is monopolized. This is not the first time that I have made a request for a change to serve me and had a big problem in this town (I actually can think of many issues that would not have happened in a city)

The last interaction I had with the taxi company resulted in a fare increase; a car-seat-crazy-mom tax of one dollar added to my fare.

*I* wouldn't waste my car seat collateral with the taxi company on this particular issue. I'd select heavier clothing or weigh my child right after a full meal, get him a HBB and call it a day. I wouldn't call TC, I can't see what good that would do, particularly in a small town. The taxi company might very well black list you and flat out refuse you service, then it doesn't matter if they have TAs or not. JMHO

 

[TechnoGranola]

Where can I get some kind of evidence that rear tethering is required in Canada, then I can show it to the taxi. I have to petition the company to get the anchor installed (they can use the extra dollar per fare to pay for it!)

I have no choice in my seat options currently than to tether the forward facing seats. I'll let my friend know about the less expensive seats that are more study.:yeahthatlove:

Your terms are confusing me. Rear tethering implies tethering a rear-facing seat. That is NOT required in Canada. Tethering a forward-facing seat is called "top tethering" and IS required.

If you want evidence, your seat's manual will say that the tether is required for a forward-facing install. Without using the tether, you have not installed it properly. Now, you're using a non-Canadian seat, so that gets tough as you can't really show that to the taxi company if tethering that seat isn't required as per the manual, can you?

Transport Canada's site has a page on installing forward-facing seats that says to always use the top tether, here http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/safedrivers-childsafety-stage2-forward-facing-1085.htm

I bet there is more on Transport Canada's site, perhaps in the regulations but my kids are taking me to a movie for my birthday and are telling me to hurry up and get ready so I don't have the time to search further right now.

 

[rmcbryan]

Your terms are confusing me. Rear tethering implies tethering a rear-facing seat. That is NOT required in Canada. Tethering a forward-facing seat is called "top tethering" and IS required.

You are right! The terms are confusing. All along I am meaning TOP tethered Forward facing!

I can't rear face him, tethered or not. He is too heavy for my seat. I can forward face him in both seats I have, both require top tethers.

The Frontier wants it LATCHed as a booster so that limits me to new cars. (It is pretty heavy so I could see the force of the booster pushing into his until the seat belt restrained him causing injury.

But he has to grow 1.5" and gain a pound or so, to not use the harness. However, the idea of having a harness seat for the older child because it is safer and I planned to use the harness until he outgrows the harness, so that is not until he is 65 lb/ 52" (or the top harness for his shoulder height) and he could stay in it until he is 57" or 9 years old as a booster (by law) or until he is 120 lbs/ 65" by the seat specs.

And regarding the town issues.. thinking of moving! But with that in mind, put some pressure on getting the taxi to put in the anchor (then move) and future parents will have a safe taxi since I will get black listed for sure!

I am also thinking I need to get a complementary "travel seat" that would serve me better in taxis and public transport generally, maybe a booster that doesn't need to be latched, just to have something rather than nothing.

 

[VanIsleMommy]

If he's 39 pounds I would just put him in a booster for taxi rides. I'm no expert but I think a properly installed booster when he's 1 pound away would be safer than an improperly installed car seat. And with shoes and clothes on I would bet he's 40 anyway.

 

[QuassEE]

I'm guessing you're generally sitting nearby or next to your child in the taxi? I, too, would use a booster, after a nice big breakfast (of course!) I fail to understand how there's no tether anchor in a taxi...What type of car is it? We can tell you the typical location to look in. Some vehicles have weird locations.

Also--what did you test to see if the belts lock? What process did you use? I can't imagine a 15 year old taxi?!

-Nicole.

 

[bubbaray]

I am also thinking I need to get a complementary "travel seat" that would serve me better in taxis and public transport generally, maybe a booster that doesn't need to be latched, just to have something rather than nothing.

I would not ever use the Frontier as a travel seat. OMG, I'd rather walk.

I would get a Graco Turbo Booster in the high back version.

 

[rmcbryan]

I bought the Frontier for the car that is now sitting in my driveway uninsured! It is a big seat and I took it in the airplane. I don't mind carrying a heavy seat.

My mom was dragging a light seat around, it was a pretty flimsy thing anyway and the shoulder belt adjusters were just attached to the fabric, which doesn't seem safe. It is a Dorel (booster with Harness) but it expired last year. I don't let her use it anymore.

I use a old simple push frame that was used for a infant seat (it only held the seat and isn't a stroller) and took a positioning bar away. Then I use it to carry the bigger seats (he walks or rides his bike) so that I have a seat to use to come home (up hill, loaded with groceries) by taxi once or twice a week.

But a 9 lb Graco Turbo Booster in the high back version sounds pretty appealling! It would fit him now and no LATCH requirement and for trips under 50 km around town, I can see it being not a bad idea to have it for travelling by taxi.