Rigid LATCH and seatbelt on Foonf

jubgulia

Active member
Clek stated on Facebook today that you can use both the rigid LATCH and seatbelt together when forward facing over the stated LATCH limits:

"The new requirements for LATCH does not pose a safety threat for seats --it is a way to give all car manufacturers the same limit. You should check your vehicle's owner's manual to see what their limits are if they provide one. And yes, once your child reaches the upper limits you can use the vehicle's seat belt AND because our rigid LATCH has an independent system that is not connected to the vehicle seat belt system you can use both the rigid LATCH system with the vehicle seat belt together. I hope this is clear, if not please call our customer service department at 1-866-656-2462."
 
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MotoMommaNH

New member
:scratcheshead: this goes against every thing I've been told when installing any other seat I'm aware of...:confused:

they must have tested this seat using both?
 

jeminijad

New member
Now, I'm not saying that Clek is like SK/Diono. Really. But there have been things shared on FB before by a rep that did not end up being correct.

I would really like to see this explained.
 

Brigala

Well-known member
It makes total sense, though, because of the way the seat is designed. The rigid LATCH will offer the rock-solid stability and the seat belt can offer additional weight bearing for heavier kids.

The problem is that most vehicles don't allow both systems to be used at the same time. So when advising parents to follow all manufacturer instructions, we're stuck with... what is it... Ford, if I remember correctly? Aren't they the ones that allow both systems to be used if the car seat allows it?
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
It makes total sense, though, because of the way the seat is designed. The rigid LATCH will offer the rock-solid stability and the seat belt can offer additional weight bearing for heavier kids.

More than that, my understanding is that you get the most out of their REACT system when using rigid LATCH. Maybe think of it more like installing with the seatbelt and connecting the base/crumple zone to the lower anchors? :shrug-shoulders:
 

hope41more

New member
Clek stated on Facebook today that you can use both the rigid LATCH and seatbelt together when forward facing over the stated LATCH limits:

"The new requirements for LATCH does not pose a safety threat for seats --it is a way to give all car manufacturers the same limit. You should check your vehicle's owner's manual to see what their limits are if they provide one. And yes, once your child reaches the upper limits you can use the vehicle's seat belt AND because our rigid LATCH has an independent system that is not connected to the vehicle seat belt system you can use both the rigid LATCH system with the vehicle seat belt together. I hope this is clear, if not please call our customer service department at 1-866-656-2462."

It makes total sense, though, because of the way the seat is designed. The rigid LATCH will offer the rock-solid stability and the seat belt can offer additional weight bearing for heavier kids.

The problem is that most vehicles don't allow both systems to be used at the same time. So when advising parents to follow all manufacturer instructions, we're stuck with... what is it... Ford, if I remember correctly? Aren't they the ones that allow both systems to be used if the car seat allows it?

Except the way i read this, it doesnt say anything about following manufacturer instructions (except for in the original manual somewhere?). The way I read it, it says to use only latch to the upper limits. Then, because rigid latch does not interfere with belt path, rigid latch and a seatbelt can be used with this seat. Right?
 

safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
Totally hypothetical here.

One of the big issues with LATCH AND seatbelt is interference of one with the other. Only those Ford vehicles where there is no interference have a specific OK in the manual to use both. Ford vehicle where the LATCH and seatbelt cross each other do not allow it.

I haven't read the Foonf manual, but I'm assuming, like all seats, there is a blurb in the beginning to consult your vehicle owner's manual?

If the Foonf car manual blurb is there, and the car allows it, I see no issue.

If the idea is that the base and the seat can be viewed as separate parts (much like a child and a booster using LATCH for stability are viewed) and the Foonf manual has a car manual blurb, and the car manual specifically prohibits using both, (possibly due to interference or possibly due to just not testing both together) it would seem pretty clear not to use both.

Where it's kinda hard to interpret is the facebook statement, while it does state clearly to consult the vehicle manual, where it is lacking is in the assumption that the owner's manual addresses the issue of interference one way or the other.
 

lovemybabies924

New member
More than that, my understanding is that you get the most out of their REACT system when using rigid LATCH. Maybe think of it more like installing with the seatbelt and connecting the base/crumple zone to the lower anchors? :shrug-shoulders:

Yea that's what I was thinking. It's not like other seats where the latch belt and seatbelt would be over lapping... If this is real I'm very excited

Eta: it would be similar to a latch able booster in concept of how the areas are separate
 

AK Dad

New member
Just a good example that a lot of what is sometimes seen as CPS rules brought down on stone tablets are really just general rules of thumb - nothing magical about them, and no matter what you have to go with the manufacturer's instructions. Just like the "handle must be down on all infant seats" urban legend, the true answer is "it depends"
 

Clek CPST

New member
they must have tested this seat using both?

Yes, the Foonf has been tested in forward-facing mode using both the rigid LATCH and seatbelt at the same time and it meets or exceeds all required standards when both are used together.

From the vehicle manufacturer perspective, many vehicle manuals instruct caregivers to route the lap/shoulder belt through the car seat and buckle it to prevent it from being a strangulation risk. In these vehicles - provided there is no interference between the seatbelt and LATCH connectors/anchors, there will be no conflict between the Foonf manual and the vehicle manufacturer manual.

Specific instruction regarding the addition of the seatbelt to the rigid LATCH will be included in the next revision of the manual.
 

tiggercat

New member
Yes, the Foonf has been tested in forward-facing mode using both the rigid LATCH and seatbelt at the same time and it meets or exceeds all required standards when both are used together.

From the vehicle manufacturer perspective, many vehicle manuals instruct caregivers to route the lap/shoulder belt through the car seat and buckle it to prevent it from being a strangulation risk. In these vehicles - provided there is no interference between the seatbelt and LATCH connectors/anchors, there will be no conflict between the Foonf manual and the vehicle manufacturer manual.

Specific instruction regarding the addition of the seatbelt to the rigid LATCH will be included in the next revision of the manual.

This all make sense, but there is a difference between routing the seatbelt through the belt path to keep it out of the way, and an actual tight installation. speaking of which, how would you know if you had a tight install with the latch connected?
But my question has more to do with using latch over vehicle limits. Is Clek advocating using the anchors above limits on a harnessed seat, as long as the seatbelt is also used, without expressed permission of the vehicle manufacturer? Or only if expressedly allowed in the manual?
Say you have a 40lb child weight limit vehicle. You turn your kid FF at 40lb, and immediately have to go to seatbelt install because you're over the limit, and never get to use the fancy rigid latch. The Facebook reply seemed to indicate that it would be possible to continue using rigid latch in combination with the seatbelt, when the latch limit is exceeded. But in that case, the seatbelt is the primary (?) installation method, and it'd better be secure.
Now I'd better reread and make sure I remember correctly, I can barely remember what I had for breakfast, much less what my mind was thinking last week, lol.

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