Redesigned Combi Coccoro infant insert

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katiegraypierce

Guest
The instructions that came with the my 2011 Combi Coccoro say that the infant insert needs to be used for infants under 25lbs. Does this mean my 18lb 13 month needs to have the infant insert in place or can I remove it. He fits better with out it.
 
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skipspin

New member
Are you absolutely sure it says 25#s?

I know the old insert had a much lower "rule." 25 lbs would mean my 2 yr old would have had to use the infant insert which I find quite funny!
 

megan.amarice

New member
Are you sure 25# isn't the upper limit, when it has to come out? I know the older style has a range of 15-20# where you can use it if you want, but can remove it if baby fits ok without it. The manual also stipulated you could take it out prior to 15# if baby fit better without it.
 
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Katiegraypierce

Guest
I checked and the new one says it must be used until an infant is 25 lbs or has reached the top shoulder position. What gets me is the word infant?
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
That makes little sense. Do you have a picture of that page?

Page 54 of the manual they offer in PDF form online says that you must discontinue use of the infant insert at 20 pounds, but you must use it until the child is 15 pounds.

Wendy
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Wow. Sure enough. That makes zero sense on Combi's part, and contradicts their online manual. Why would you use the infant insert forward facing?? And 25 pounds? My two year old is 23 pounds. The infant insert would force her to outgrow the seat rear facing if I still had to use it.

Do you mind if I share that image with Combi's rep, and ask for clarification from them?

Wendy
 

NVMBR02

New member
Interesting. My 2 year old is also well under 25 pounds (she is right about 20 pounds now). I wonder if Combi/Vera will okay removing the insert for an older child like they did with the older version.

I recently sold my CCO and regret it. I was thinking about getting another one. Maybe I should before the old stock runs out.
 

skylinphoto

New member
I have a 3.5 yr old under 25 lbs ...maybe combi should rethink this. It doesn't make sense.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Car-Seat.Org
 

BMWBig6

Member
Yep, saw the same guidelines in my new CCO manual. It clearly states the insert "MUST" (all caps) be used up to 25 lbs. The other problem is, if I follow these directions with my 22 lbs kid, she is pushed so high in the seat that her head is above the headrest cushion insert. Can I just flip or rotate the headrest cushion 180 degrees so that it's actually high enough to support her head?
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
I've emailed Vera, and gave her the link to this thread. She implied that it should not be to 25 pounds.

Thank you for letting me know. I would like to assure that there are no
typing errors in the new Coccoro manuals. If you could please ask her to
scan the page that says 25 pounds for the Coccoro padding and send it
to me including the front and back cover that have print codes I will be
happy to check it out.

...

One concept that I think would be very valuable for you to share on the
forum (or I can do it if you would like) is that there is no scientific
way for us to figure out what the body dimensions and weights are at any
given moment of the child's growth and when we should say "must use"
versus "can use". We have no way of determining if the seated height is
x# inches tall, wide, round pear shape... how long the legs and arms
are the circumference of their head, and a whole bunch of other data.
So we use "average biostatistics for average biometrics."

...

So.... For us to require/recommend the use of the padding purely
depends on our fit & comfort findings and a whole lot of guessing. We
test all of our seats with and without the padding with all sizes of
ATDs in all possible configurations. When we have a really hard time
buckling the ATD with the padding, we remove it to be able to have extra
harness length. The down side to this scientific approach is that we've
not been able to teach the ATDs to speak to us. It would be very helpful
if they could say "Ahhhh coooshi - I like" or "YIKES not comfy - take
it out." So... I decided we should work with real kids.

The Coccoro instructions say 15 pounds only because we are looking at an
average 2-3 month old's airway needing or not needing special
consideration. We test the Coccoro with all sizes of ATDs with &
without the pad. There are no crash concerns with and without the
padding - only perceived comfort issues. We have found some forward
facing kiddos that prefer to have the padding there and on the flip
side some 4 & 5 month olds that fit better without the padding.

She emailed me back last night. Those are some snippets from the email.

Wendy
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
In hopes that Vera sees this post...

Is it then ok to assume that the padding is always optional, presuming the child fits properly and the airway isn't compromised? (I believe that was the stance on the previous version.)

I love the insert (especially when playing with color combinations, LOL), but the problem I'm having with my newborn is that between the very padded insert and his very padded cloth diaper, his body is raised so much toward his head that it actually creates MORE of an airway issue.
 

BMWBig6

Member
Ask and you shall receive (though I apologize for the poor cell phone picture quality--this was faster/easier than scanning). Seems like the engineers are not talking to the sales/marketing people or something. I'd like to get to the bottom of this, as I said before the seat bottom insert raises my child high enough that the shoulder straps (seat belts) have to be set to the 2nd highest position, which would be fine except that this interferes with the headrest insert (unless I turn it upside down). The instructions seems to make it pretty clear that one MUST use the inserts for a child weighing less than 25 lbs. I don't see any room for interpretation here.

cco1.jpg

cco2.jpg

cco4.jpg

cco5.jpg

cco6.jpg

cco7.jpg

cco8.jpg
 

NVMBR02

New member
Ask and you shall receive (though I apologize for the poor cell phone picture quality--this was faster/easier than scanning). Seems like the engineers are not talking to the sales/marketing people or something. I'd like to get to the bottom of this, as I said before the seat bottom insert raises my child high enough that the shoulder straps (seat belts) have to be set to the 2nd highest position, which would be fine except that this interferes with the headrest insert (unless I turn it upside down). The instructions seems to make it pretty clear that one MUST use the inserts for a child weighing less than 25 lbs. I don't see any room for interpretation here.

I don't have my original Coccoro manual in front of me but if I remember correctly the old one had the same wording, at least when it first came out. I am hoping Vera can reply to this thread and clarify what Combi's stance on this.
 

Vera@Combi

CPST Instructor
Ask and you shall receive (though I apologize for the poor cell phone picture quality--this was faster/easier than scanning). Seems like the engineers are not talking to the sales/marketing people or something. I'd like to get to the bottom of this, as I said before the seat bottom insert raises my child high enough that the shoulder straps (seat belts) have to be set to the 2nd highest position, which would be fine except that this interferes with the headrest insert (unless I turn it upside down). The instructions seems to make it pretty clear that one MUST use the inserts for a child weighing less than 25 lbs. I don't see any room for interpretation here.



Thanks for taking the time to submit these pictures. I have not seen this version of the manual so am investigating the changes. I will keep all of you posted ASAP. Please stay tuned... Vera
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Thanks, Vera! Also, the table of contents page is missing a closing parenthesis. It says, "(use with infants less than 25 pounds (11.4kg)"

Wendy
 

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