Quick reference of seats compliant for 2012 and how to know

Kat_Shoshin

New member
I am just bumping this thread. I am sad that we still need to refer to this when buying brand new seats in the stores... it's almost March for crying out loud!

:mad:
 
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sparkyd

New member
I was actually going to ask if this could be made into a sticky thread for awhile so it's at the top if we need to look at it. Would that be an appropriate use of a "sticky"?
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Pixelated said:
The List you're talking about is here: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=211964

Dorel is being rather difficult about confirming or denying the accuracy of it. I think it was probably not supposed to be released, and it was just pure luck I got somebody at the right time who was willing to share. I'm kicking myself for not getting the CS rep's name, or more details, or being really leechy and asking her to email or fax it to me right then!

They are also now giving different answers depending on if you own the seat or are asking why it's still for sale in store after finding out its not compliant. I'm very disappointed in that. It's not their fault that zellers hadn't complied. But it becomes their fault when they become complicit. Maybe it's time for health Canada to be told of dorel's varying answers depending on who calls?

Manual revision on the designer 22 starter infant seat was November 4, 2010. No seat prior to that will be compliant. Not all seats after are automatically compliant, but no seat prior to that will be due to the handle position change. Technicians are smart - we can look at the different between a known compliant seat and a known non-compliant seat, and look at the manual revision date and put 2+2 together. I called about a seat last week, was told it wasn't compliant. I requested a manual be sent and I was sent the November 4 revision which indicated the handle must be up. The seat I called about had actually been made about 6 weeks prior to that and I was told it was non-compliant. So put 2 and 2 together and we know the manual revision date that the change in handle position happened and it's pretty easy to see that none of that model complied prior to the manual revision date.

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org

(edited to correct a typo and date that was off by a day.)
 

Keeanh

Well-known member
They are also now giving different answers depending on if you own the seat or are asking why it's still for sale in store after finding out its not compliant. I'm very disappointed in that. It's not their fault that zellers hadn't complied. But it becomes their fault when they become complicit. Maybe it's time for health Canada to be told of dorel's varying answers depending on who calls?

Manual revision on the designer 22 starter infant seat was November 4, 2010. No seat prior to that will be compliant. Not all seats after are automatically compliant, but no seat prior to that will be due to the handle position change. Technicians are smart - we can look at the different between a known compliant seat and a known non-compliant seat, and look at the manual revision date and put 2+2 together. I called about a seat last week, was told it wasn't compliant. I requested a manual be sent and I was sent the November 4 revision which indicated the handle must be up. The seat I called about had actually been made about 6 weeks prior to that and I was told it was non-compliant. So put 2 and 2 together and we know the manual revision date that the change in handle position happened and it's pretty easy to see that none of that model complied prior to the manual revision date.

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org

(edited to correct a typo and date that was off by a day.)

Yep. I had a very interesting conversation with a Dorel CS rep. He was very alarmed to hear that non-compliant seats were available in stores. I heard him reading off a list searching for model #s & compliancy dates. I could tell it was the same list Pixelated has. He confirmed that the 2 seats I was considering purchasing were most certainly non-compliant. He then suggested that I inform the store manager.

As soon as I informed him that the manager was already aware, and that Zellers was advertising these non-compliant seats in their flyer, I was put on hold.

5 loooonnng minutes later, he came back and told me:
- there is no list of compliant dates
- since the seats were on the shelves at Zellers that meant they were compliant
- that seats needed to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis by their product specialists and he couldn't say over the phone if a seat was compliant or not
- that he may have been mistaken when he first spoke to me, and I would be contacted by e-mail after consultation with the product specialists (this has not happened)
 

Keeanh

Well-known member
Here's my theory (and it's just a theory):

Maybe Dorel neglected to include the blue 35lb Scenera and the Designer 22 in their list of non-compliant seats that they gave Zellers. Zellers was diligent about clearing out other non-compliant seats, including the pink Sceneras. If this was Dorel's mistake, that might explain their part of the "cover-up".
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Yep. I had a very interesting conversation with a Dorel CS rep. He was very alarmed to hear that non-compliant seats were available in stores. I heard him reading off a list searching for model #s & compliancy dates. I could tell it was the same list Pixelated has. He confirmed that the 2 seats I was considering purchasing were most certainly non-compliant. He then suggested that I inform the store manager.

As soon as I informed him that the manager was already aware, and that Zellers was advertising these non-compliant seats in their flyer, I was put on hold.

5 loooonnng minutes later, he came back and told me:
- there is no list of compliant dates
- since the seats were on the shelves at Zellers that meant they were compliant
- that seats needed to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis by their product specialists and he couldn't say over the phone if a seat was compliant or not
- that he may have been mistaken when he first spoke to me, and I would be contacted by e-mail after consultation with the product specialists (this has not happened)

What I just don't understand is why they're covering for Zellers? It bugs the crap out of me and I'm very close to talking to the person from Health Canada that I have an email for.

On the other hand, I'd like to ask that customer service rep that if I bought the seat and then turned it over to Transport Canada for compliance testing if it would pass the standard. I know the answer is no because the handle position wasn't required to be up prior to the change in the manual. Wonder if they'd get fined for saying the seat was compliant when it's not?

And this is the secondary problem - say a parent calls, and then the story is changed, so they go ahead and buy the seat. Then a year down the road they want to sell their seat, so they call just to double check and are told no. How livid would you be? I'd be really mad.

I'm well past the point of chasing down retailers, but I'm highly annoyed at Dorel's flip-flopping. The answer is a simple yes or no and that answer shouldn't change based on finding out a store is still trying to sell it. Don't lie to your customer - talk to the retailer and find out what the heck is going on.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Here's my theory (and it's just a theory):

Maybe Dorel neglected to include the blue 35lb Scenera and the Designer 22 in their list of non-compliant seats that they gave Zellers. Zellers was diligent about clearing out other non-compliant seats, including the pink Sceneras. If this was Dorel's mistake, that might explain their part of the "cover-up".

If this is the case, they need to quietly talk to Zeller's and do something to get those seats off the shelf - not just cover it up.

As it stands right now, Zeller's, Sears, and Dorel are losing sales because I know I'm telling people to be cautious shopping at those stores due to them not having complied with the Health Canada requirements. Dorel allowing the store to sell non-compliant seats is ultimately reducing their sales of compliant seats too. Parents aren't stupid. And whether they wanted to give a date or not, we have a date of sorts. It's quite easy in the case of the infant seats to determine the earliest date it could've been compliant - just tracking down the earliest manual with the change in handle position makes it easy to tell. And looking to see what version manual is in a package and whether it requires the handle up or not is an instant answer. :twocents:
 

canadiangie

New member
I worked with a new MyRide today. I didn't have an original to compare it to (other than the original in my basement, but I wasn't home at the time), and it appears the new MyRide has some plastic add-ons along the front, similar to other bolsters we're seeing on '12 seats these days.

I haven't read much of this thread but I thought I'd post an update about the MyRide.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Was just going to post about the my ride. Saw it in sears today and it's been modified in a similar way to the dorel seats - just not to the same extent.

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snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I was actually going to ask if this could be made into a sticky thread for awhile so it's at the top if we need to look at it. Would that be an appropriate use of a "sticky"?

After a little discussion we've decided to stick this thread for a short period of time. Probably 6 months or so.

There is the option at the top right of the thread to subscribe to a thread. I'd suggest that those who want to be able to easily find this thread once it's no longer a sticky add it to their subscribed threads list. There is an option on there that limits notification so you don't have to find out every time a reply is posted - but it will let you easily track down the thread in the future.
 

m2h

Member
Hi, I haven't been here in a while and have been reading a lot of threads about 2012 compliance. I'm not sure what it all means in any practical sense. What do the 2012 compliance standards change in terms of the seats (ie, are they safer in any real way - I read the Transport Cda FAQ and saw that the dynamic and seatbelt testing standards have changed to be more in line with the US, but given most carseats here originate with US companies, does it really change anything)? I've got my 2 year old RF in a 2010 Britax Advocate 65 CS and a 2011 Radian XT; I also have a 2009 Britax Diplomat stored for the maybe baby that may be joining us sometime in the near future. I have no intention of selling these seats or passing them on. Clearly none of these is 2012 compliant, but in terms of their safety and my insurance company (in case of an accident, in say, 2013, would they say "not 2012 compliant so we're not paying") is there any need to update seats? Finally (I know, a lot of questions), are the Transport Cda carseat standards updated annually or on a predictably regular basis?
 

Byron

New member
M2H,

I am also confused. I have 2 car seats at present from 2010, and in the process of buying a "few" more, radian, britax and possiable a Sencera (although after reading this post I may not!)

Should I replace my old seats?
 

Pixelated

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Hi, I haven't been here in a while and have been reading a lot of threads about 2012 compliance. I'm not sure what it all means in any practical sense. What do the 2012 compliance standards change in terms of the seats (ie, are they safer in any real way - I read the Transport Cda FAQ and saw that the dynamic and seatbelt testing standards have changed to be more in line with the US, but given most carseats here originate with US companies, does it really change anything)? I've got my 2 year old RF in a 2010 Britax Advocate 65 CS and a 2011 Radian XT; I also have a 2009 Britax Diplomat stored for the maybe baby that may be joining us sometime in the near future. I have no intention of selling these seats or passing them on. Clearly none of these is 2012 compliant, but in terms of their safety and my insurance company (in case of an accident, in say, 2013, would they say "not 2012 compliant so we're not paying") is there any need to update seats? Finally (I know, a lot of questions), are the Transport Cda carseat standards updated annually or on a predictably regular basis?

M2H,

I am also confused. I have 2 car seats at present from 2010, and in the process of buying a "few" more, radian, britax and possiable a Sencera (although after reading this post I may not!)

Should I replace my old seats?

The older standards were good -- and if your seats are appropriate for your children, they're installed properly, used properly, and aren't recalled, expired, crashed, dropped, had their harness straps washed improperly, or been checked as luggage on an airplane...then absolutely, keep using them. They're safe.

Some seats required no structural changes to be compliant with 2012 standards; some just required a labeling change (min FF weight limit at 22lbs, for example, rather than 20lbs). Some required significant changes to pass, most notably the anti-rebound for rear facing, and that is why there are visible structural changes to some seats. Some had changes that were not obvious to us, but changed nonetheless. Others have disappeared from the market entirely.

For seats that will be used RF - yes, the new standards are higher, meaning essentially that those certified to the 2012 standards are safER. The US does not have this standard in their crash tests, and we're seeing changes to Canadian seats in order to pass our standards that are now showing up (yet) on American seats. My personal seats are not compliant and I have no plans to replace them, however. I am 100% confident that they're installed and used properly, and THAT is the biggest contributor to my children's safety.

As for insurance not replacing a non-compliant seat - I could see how an agent might be confused about what this all means, but with with a bit of explanation and common sense I can't see how they could refuse coverage of non-compliant seats.

I don't believe there is a regular schedule to Transport Canada changes, but I'm just guessing there. The current changes in part amalgamated some interim orders from several years ago, putting everything in one place.

If you are in the market for new seats, most retailers are now selling only compliant seats (as was the law as of January 1st). Unfortunately there has been some ongoing confusion with Zellers, Sears, and possibly others. Babies R Us/Toys R Us has been very reliable, and Walmart also quite good. If you're looking for a particular seat, let us know what it is and we can give you specific things to look for to make sure it IS compliant before buying. It would be best to start a new thread though, you'll get more responses that way. If you're not sure what to buy, give us a full run down of your child's height, weight, seated torso height (bum to shoulder), your vehicle (make/model/year), your budget, and who else is in the vehicle, in which seating positions, and we'll do our best to guide you!

And the Scenera...the only infant/child seat I'm aware of that required NO modifications to pass testing :thumbsup:
 

Byron

New member
Thanks Jen, thats great to hear. I have two new seats in my car i bought today. A Radian from Sears and a Maestro from TRU.

One quick note though. I have a Marathon, that I have checked as Baggage twice on a plane. DOes that mean that it should not be used anymore?
 

Pixelated

Moderator - CPST Instructor
One quick note though. I have a Marathon, that I have checked as Baggage twice on a plane. DOes that mean that it should not be used anymore?

About the Marathon - no, I would not personally ever use that seat again. It is life saving equipment that was out of your sight, roughly handled, potentially dropped or thrown, and you have no idea whether it was compromised or not. You wouldn't do that with say, a defibrillator, and expect it to work when needed...It's very, very unfortunate that airlines offer that service 'for free.' The other risk with checking a seat is whether it will actually show up on the other end when you need it.

For future flights, take the seat onto the plane with you and seat your child in it while on the flight. Safer for your child, safer for other passengers (your child won't be a projectile), and safer for the car seat. The Marathon installs very easily on the plane. The Radian does too, but I've never personally flown with a Maestro. All seats bearing the National Safety Mark (circular sticker with maple leaf) are certified for use on aircraft, but some airlines have size restrictions as to what will physically fit on the seat. There is a whole sub-section for air travel with car seats if you want specific ideas for your situation when the next flight comes.
 

m2h

Member
Thanks so much for that detailed answer! I would use any excuse to go seat shopping (and given she'll be RF for another 2 years, safer sounds better to me), but I dont' think my partner'd go for it given we're at 3 seats in 2 years for 1 child already.
 

jellopanda

New member
Just a question - your thing says that Britax only started complying after July 2011... but Britax's site says that ALL seats are compliant, here:

http://www.britax.ca/support/faq/infantchild-seats

Q. What are the new standards implemented by Transport Canada for car seats on January 1, 2012? Can I still use my BRITAX car seat if it was manufactured before January 1, 2012?
A. Please be assured that there is no need to replace your car seat due to the new regulations. All BRITAX car seats manufactured before AND after January 1, 2012 are compliant with Transport Canada’s current dynamic test standards. For information about the new child car seat safety regulations, please visit Transport Canada’s website: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/releases-2011-h145e-6605.htm.
 

QuassEE

Moderator - CPST Instructor
What they're neglecting to clause is:

"are compliant with Transport Canada's dynamic test standards..that were in effect at the time of seat production."

-N.
 

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