Question Lap Belt quandrum

U

Unregistered

Guest
I just bought a new Hyundai H1 (low spec version of the i800) and the rear seats only come with lap belts. The baby seat base is fine with a lap belt but our five year old's chair requires three point seat belt. I had the idea to secure the upper part of the chair to the seat using tie down straps but I'm thinking not a good idea as maybe in an impact the seat could fold forward but I'm not sure. The alternative is to let our child sit in the normal seat with the lap belt which is what she uses everyday on the school bus anyway and 99% of our driving is city.

Any ideas?
 
ADS

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
Welcome to car-seat.org!

What year is your H1? How tall and heavy is your five-year-old?

Unfortunately, riding in just a lap belt is unsafe for anyone. The bus is a bit of a different circumstance, as it relys on a different type of energy management than we have in passenger vehicles. You can see in this brief video what happens to the passenger in the foreground, in a lap-only belt -- as you can imagine, the results would be devastating.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3KXZQu4niA"]booster lap only - YouTube[/ame]

You have a few options for your daughter, depending upon her size, whether or not your vehicle has tether anchors, and your budget. The easiest solution would be to purchase her a high-weight harnessing seat, but that is at best a temporary stopgap as eventually she will outgrow that and need an alternate type of restraint. However, the baby (what is his/her age and size?) could use it down the road. There are also vests and harnesses that might be an option -- the key here is to use some sort of system to restrain her upper body. Unfortunately tie downs are not a crash-tested solution, and even if they were, securing her booster seat would not help secure *her,* which is what you want to happen during a crash.

I hope you'll come back and give us a few more details, so that we can better help you transport your children safely. :)
 

safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
It looks like you are in Panama. Are US car seats allowed there? Aslo, what type of car seat is your 5 year old using.
 

Jeanum

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Staff member
Welcome to car-seat.org. :) I'm assuming you're located outside the U.S. because despite being a car geek of sorts I'm not familiar with your Hyundai model. :eek: Using straps to rig up and tie down the top of a carseat or booster seat in the back seat of your car isn't an appropriate nor safe option as you seem to acknowledge and know. If your car's rear vehicle seat has lap-only seatbelts, then they're only usable to install a carseat with its own built-in internal harness, not for a belt positioning booster seat which requires a lap-shoulder belt. The lap-only seatbelt alone in your car isn't an appropriate restraint for a 5 year old child nor for other adult sized passengers to use, either, because the upper body won't be safely restrained in the event of a crash, plus the lap-only seatbelt won't be properly positioned low on the child's hips and instead would be likely high enough on the belly to risk abdominal injury. Depending on your 5 year old's height and weight, you can consider obtaining a harnessed carseat with a built-in internal 5-point harness to install with the lap-only belt in the back seat. If the front passenger seat has a lap-shoulder belt, that could be a workable option for your 5 year old's forward facing carseat if the vehicle manual doesn't prohibit using the front passenger seat for a forward facing carseat or belt positioning booster, with a caveat to carefully read through the airbag and child restraint sections of your vehicle's owner's manual to be aware of any restrictions for a forward facing installation in the front seat. Rear facing installations are universally a no-go in the front passenger seat if there's an active front passenger airbag that cannot be turned off via a switch or key, but forward facing installs can be allowable in the front passenger seat depending on the specific vehicle if the back seat isn't compatible with carseat/booster usage.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
DSCF4230.JPG

Not sure how to post photo's here but I'd like to show you the situation to be clear. My H1 is 2013 model. The child is 100 cm and 40 lbs. The lap belt secures the lower section and I was thinking of using a 200lb tie down strap to support the upper part. Child's seat is an Infanti.

Unfortunately here in Panama there may be laws written regarding car safety but they are not enforced. I know of very few people here who use car child seats of any kind. So its down to the individual to do the best they can to protect their children, hence my post. I know in hindsight I should have selected a different vehicle but at the time this was the best and affordable option for our requirements.

Yes you could use a US car seat here in Panama as there are no regulations as I mentioned.

Does anyone know if there is a procedure to have three point belts installed?

Thanks for your support so far!!
 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
That picture is not showing up, unfortunately. I believe if you register you can "attach" it - otherwise you could upload it to photobucket or a similar site and provide the link.

My honest answer to you, with the information you provided, would be to import a Britax Frontier 85. It will not fix the situation, but what it will do is buy you some time. It will last you until your daughter's shoulders pass the top slot, which is 20" tall. It also has an 85lb weight limit, but she will almost certainly cross the height limit first.

I would also begin a search for a reputable person, experienced at modifying cars, who might be able to identify a safe location on which to secure a shoulder belt. I would be very cautious with this, though, as a belt secured to an improper spot could potentially fail in a crash.

Is your daughter's current seat a belt-positioning booster, which she sits on but the vehicle's belt actually restrains her, or does it have an internal harness?
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Okay thanks.

I'm looking into options for retrofitting proper seat belts to the vehicle. in the meantime I'll be looking for a seat which is okay with lap belt only.

Carrie_R, you mention the 85 but i see in the manual that you should also use the tether hook which I cannot do. Any idea if this Is this mandatory or just a recommendation?

Cheers
David
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
The Frontier 85 is approved to 65 lbs without the top tether. The Frontier 85 SICT is approved to 85 lbs without the tether (though a tether is always preferred when available.) Most kids will outgrow it by height well before weight but may well make it beyond 65 lbs by height in this seat.

EZ-On also sells a Heavy Duty Tether Anchor Kit that you can self-install in most cars to add a tether anchor.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Great, thanks.

I bought the Britax 85 and it is excellent! thanks for the recommendation. Well that solves the 5 year old and 1 month old seating arrangement, the adult situation is another story.

My reputable car mechanic could not find the hard points for retrofitting 3 point seat belts so the only remaining option are the E-Z-On products. Anyone had any experience with these?

There is one type designed for school buses which requires no fittings. It basically wraps over the back and back underneath. I'm thinking that this would not be safe with a folding forward type car seat. I have asked a representative of the company but they did not reply to that particular question. The other they have requires installing an anchor point in the car floor behind the seats or in the roof.

Cheers
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
Hi,

Things have changed since this thread.
There are no harnesses that go to more than 65 lbs on the market any more.

If you start a thread with vehicle info and who rides in it, we can give you more personalized help.
 

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