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LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
What is the law in Michigan? I imagine whatever you hand out will have to reflect the law, not best practice (well, ideally both, but the point is, I'm not sure that you can force people to do more than the law states).

And are people required to bring the children with them? Without seeing the children, how do you know if a seat is appropriate or not? There are some 2-year-olds who will fit in some infant seats, for example.

Sounds like a very very very sticky situation, honestly. What does the law/guideline say about what kind of seat has to be brought in? (I.e., any seat? Any appropriate seat? Any new seat? Etc)
 

Kat_Momof3

New member
Are you allowed to use your phone or laptop or anything to get on the internet to show them seats? Are you allowed to give them a short list of what is available at local stores?

I would seriously make a list of every seat sold at the nearby discount stores and sort them by age/weight, and then by budget.

Oh... and then can you give them a list of local techs to contact about a seat check to ensure everything is installed/fitted properly?
 

tjham

New member
In Arizona, all someone has to do is mail in a receipt to get their fine waived. :(

You are in a tough position but also a position to have a great deal of positive influence! I like Kat's idea of listing local seats available and appropriate ages, etc. Hope this is something you're able to do without too much time and effort.

Good Luck!
 

kelkel2090

CPST Instructor
Weird. I'm in Michigan and when we get tickets they have to come to the of the weekly seat checks and go through the entiire process and education. Only then can they get a sign off and it has to be done by an officer. I wonder if this varies by county. I'm in Kent county. It's strange that they would have you sign off even though you are not certified.
 

bobandjess99

Senior Community Member
I absolutely love and highly recommend this one. It's the one we give parents at my work, and the second page (well, we print double sided, so its the backside, gotta save trees!) is just a brilliant, easy to read, 4 step bullet pointy/illustrated quick-reference sheet. It sort of pushes best practice without making it seem confusing. I tell my parents "rear face to 2, harness till kindergarten, booster til at least 8" That's way easier than "well, until its outgrown, height, or weight, inches.. pounds, age... blah, blah" because they just don't get it. I do take some time to explain the difference between a convertible and a combination seat, and caution them NOT to buy a combination right after the infant seat. I've had SO many parents buy a convertible instead of a combo since I've started "warning" them about it, because to the average parent without an interest in CPS, the difference between a convertible and combo is not readily apparent, and combos tend to cost less, and thats how we get a bunch of 9-15 months olds in combos.

http://www.safekids.org/assets/docs...seat-safety/basic-car-seat-safety-english.pdf
 

BookMama

Moderator
MaeganEmily said:
The law in Michigan is that children 0-3 must be in a harnessed seat. 4-8 must be in a booster. Proper use,

Just to clarify, Michigan law does not specify an age for harness use. As long as the child fits the booster correctly per manufacturer instructions, it's legal, regardless of age. I've been an active tech in Michigan for 5+ years and would be in big trouble if it were illegal to put a big 3YO in a high-back booster. :)

ETA: not that I like to do that -I hate it - but I do most of my seat checks in very low income areas of Detroit, where almost no one has an appropriate seat and our giveaway options are often limited.
 

BookMama

Moderator
MaeganEmily said:
BookMama, our officers are writing tickets for 3 y.o.'s in boosters. I think that the main issue is that when this law was enacted, there wasn't a hard and fast rule on how to interpret it or waive the fines and costs. Many counties will not sign off on them at all - I had a woman screaming at me a couple of months ago because she couldn't find anywhere in Shiawassee or Livingston counties that would sign her ticket. It's county by county and it's a mess.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but can you post a link to the actual language of the law? (I would but I'm on my phone.) as far as I know, it only indicates "child restraint" and does not specify a particular type of seat for a certain age.
 

Brianna

New member
(1) Except as provided in this section, or as otherwise provided by law, a rule promulgated under the administrative procedures act of 1969, 1969 PA 306, MCL 24.201 to 24.328, or federal regulation, each driver transporting a child less than 4 years of age in a motor vehicle shall properly secure that child in a child restraint system that meets the standards prescribed in 49 CFR 571.213.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(or...g.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-257-710d

Child restraint system means any device, except Type I or Type II seat belts, designed for use in a motor vehicle or aircraft to restrain, seat, or position children who weigh 30 kilograms (kg) or less.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title49-vol6/xml/CFR-2011-title49-vol6-sec571-213.xml
 

cookie123

New member
I don't like that neither of the links posted really say the role of the convertible child restraint. Just saying....
 

Rosey

New member
I absolutely love and highly recommend this one. It's the one we give parents at my work, and the second page (well, we print double sided, so its the backside, gotta save trees!) is just a brilliant, easy to read, 4 step bullet pointy/illustrated quick-reference sheet. It sort of pushes best practice without making it seem confusing. I tell my parents "rear face to 2, harness till kindergarten, booster til at least 8" That's way easier than "well, until its outgrown, height, or weight, inches.. pounds, age... blah, blah" because they just don't get it. I do take some time to explain the difference between a convertible and a combination seat, and caution them NOT to buy a combination right after the infant seat. I've had SO many parents buy a convertible instead of a combo since I've started "warning" them about it, because to the average parent without an interest in CPS, the difference between a convertible and combo is not readily apparent, and combos tend to cost less, and thats how we get a bunch of 9-15 months olds in combos.

http://www.safekids.org/assets/docs...seat-safety/basic-car-seat-safety-english.pdf

That's great. Im gonna start giving that to patients. I bring up rear facing til two at newborn checks because it seems to not go over well at the one year check when the parents have already turned them. I like the harness til kindergarten too because it does get confusing.
 

cryswilkins

New member
I also agree with Bookmama. MI law does not state a 3 yr old in a booster is illegal. I can't link either from my phone, though.

Do you mind sharing where you are located? Maybe some of us other local Mi techs can refer you to some resources in your area. It seems counter productive to waive the tickets without requiring them to see a tech. In many areas I have worked in most people don't intentionally not use seats, they just don't know where to go to get help.

It seems your office is taking on an awful large amount of liability by waiving tickets when they bring in a seat. You are not a trained CPST, but you are in a position that people believe you know what you are talking about. (not saying that you don't know, but even the most active CSO member can stand to learn something in the certification class.)

Sent from my iPhone, please excuse my typos.
 

Avery'sMama

CPST Instructor
Maegan, I'm going to send you a PM. You specifically mention a county covered by the Safe Kids coalition I work with the most often. We are glad to help connect you with resources and work with the courts to create a more formal plan. Safe Kids can also offer law enforcement officer training on the actual laws, and is available to provide resources/referrals to families with out seats. It is NOT illegal for a 3 year old to be in a booster in Michigan. However, it IS illegal for the seat to be used against it's stated purposes, so if it was a 22lb, 18 month old secured in a booster that clearly states it is for use with children ages "3 years old and 30lbs" or higher, than that would be illegal. But if the child in question is 3y 3m and 34lbs, then no, it's not illegal. Not best practice, not safe, but not illegal.

It upsets me a lot to think that a very low-income family, who has not purchased seats because of the strain on their budget, would not be able to waive a ticket, where a family who HAD the seats and just chose not use it, would be able to waive one. I have worked with officers who have directly referred people to me for a new car seat, and a car seat inspection, and then have had the ticket waived.

Anyway, you are right in saying you are not qualified to be waiving these tickets. An unrestrained child is just that, unrestrained. And providing a car seat to prove you HAVE one is not the issue. This is not like showing proof of insurance. You have to actually USE the seat. By way of comparison, are seat belt tickets waived if the driver can show their car HAS seat belts? I would assume not, because (presumably) all cars HAVE the seat belts. The ticket is for failure to USE the belt. Just like the car seat tickets should be for failure to USE the car seat.

Check your PM box for a message from me and my contact information.
 

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