I asked Graco about the Size 4 Me 70 height restriction

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
No, that still doesn't make sense. It explains why they've set limits, but not why it's an arbitrary limit that is variable dependent on your child's proportions.

I do want to follow up on last night's hissy fit and note that I realize that Graco does not "owe" us an explanation, nor am I "demanding" one. I am merely a frustrated consumer, who feels frustrated that they are prohibited from using a mode of transport that could provide increased safety - when there may not be a legitimate reason to. I really just wish someone would explain why an overall height limit is a more valuable measure than torso height. Because I'm just baffled as to why head rest click 6 is perfectly safe for a long-torsoed kid but not a leggy one. I'd really like to know whether there is something in the crash dynamics I'm not understanding or if kids are being cheated our of potential RF time in order to simplify directions.

Also, I wish mfg would look not just at the AAP recs but the NHTSA ones, which are more in line with best practice. Especially since there's a vast difference in the needs presented based on the variance between the two policies.

Yeah... I'm a bit cranky this morning. Can you tell?
 
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Kat_Momof3

New member
it doesn't explain why they say 40" instead of just setting a limit for the headrest to be set at. I mean, a kid who has a 15" torso at 40" is going to put that headrest a lot higher and cause more interaction between it and the front seat than a kid with a 12" torso at 40" (and I know we see kids that height with both torso heights) that's a 3" difference, so not a small one.
 

lovemybabybug

New member
No, that still doesn't make sense. It explains why they've set limits, but not why it's an arbitrary limit that is variable dependent on your child's proportions.

I am merely a frustrated consumer, who feels frustrated that they are prohibited from using a mode of transport that could provide increased safety - when there may not be a legitimate reason to. I really just wish someone would explain why an overall height limit is a more valuable measure than torso height. Because I'm just baffled as to why head rest click 6 is perfectly safe for a long-torsoed kid but not a leggy one. I'd really like to know whether there is something in the crash dynamics I'm not understanding or if kids are being cheated our of potential RF time in order to simplify directions

I am right there with you. I would think torso lenght would play a much bigger role than overall height, like the "one inch" rule in most seats. Someone here had a 3 year old who fit in an SR32 with inches to go above her head. This child couldn't RF in the S4M because she is over the stated high limit but her head sits much lower than my 34 inch kid.
 

gigi

New member
Manufacturers now sticking more to the RF height limits is making me think that I should also be more diligent about obeying them. For instance, my baby is just almost 1, probably between 30-31", 20ish lbs, but has a good 4" above her head in the T35. Maybe I should move her to a convertible sooner rather than later? Too bad because I was going to use it as a travel seat, but perhaps I'll buy a CCO for that purpose (as the RF height limit is 36" and I think she'll have 4" of growing room in it). I will call Graco and ask what they say about the T35.
 

Cath3114

New member
I think they just use them as estimations of when a child will outgrow the seat. Which I disagree with because of all the sizing differences. I much prefer the 1" rule.
 

djma

New member
Do any manufactureres *not* list a RF height limit? Do any of them just state "1 inch above the head"?

I guess I just don't get why people are flipping out over this one when we tell people all the time in other "how long" threads that as long as there's 1 inch yada yada yada. What's the difference?

I understand that if you are a tech (I am one as well) that you must tell them to go by the manual. But I'm talking about us as parents, not techs, if we've gone by the 1" thing up to now, why is this changing anyone's minds?
 

Brianna

New member
The MyRide has no stated height limit for rear facing- just the one inch rule. That's partly what I find frustrating about this 40" rule.
 

MomToEliEm

Moderator
Do any manufactureres *not* list a RF height limit? Do any of them just state "1 inch above the head"?

In looking throught the measurements spreadsheet, I show all the Britax, Oribit, Peg Perego Primo Viaggio convertible, and Evenflo seats don't state a lower standing height limit for rearfacing (at least that is what people submitted or what the manuals state). The Graco Comfortsport, MyRide 65, Smart Seat dont seem to indicate a lower rearfacing height than what they have for forward facing.
 
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LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
Orbit actually does, but it's the same as the FF limit--something like 53", so not something a kid would get to before they have less than an inch of room.
 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
SK Radians don't, either. It's just 53" for the seat. The newer Diono ones do.

I think it's an issue because the mfg have been so insistent that it's an issue. I used to be of the opinion that they were just guidelines, because it was parroted here on c-s.o so often. But our tech training tells us to follow the mfg and the mfg say, and when the mfg repeatedly insist that's the limit, it makes me squeamish - even as a caregiver who is very comfortable making "parental" decisions (with blanket permission to do so, given by the actual parents.)

There are two sides to it; the Dorel school who insists you MUST MUST MUST stop RF at 40" regardless of weight (<40 obviously) or torso height, and the Clek who says, "Well, we had to list a limit, but it's not really important, follow 1" rule." I consider the latter to be in the realm of where I'm okay making that parental decision, so I'm waiting to see where Graco falls after things play out.

On a side note, I transported a 40.5" kid in the seat today due to thinking he was under 40" when I set the seats up and deciding I wasn't going to flip about a half an inch. He was somewhere between slot 4 & 5, with inches above his head in either slot. I can see what they mean by no 1" rule needed, because you'll be moving the headrest up long before they hit 1". I just don't get how slot 6 (or higher) is okay if his legs are shorter, but somehow longer legs = overrotation. Sigh.

Gonna go borrow my leggy 44" kiddo in a bit to see where she falls.
 

Qarin

New member
Has anyone ever asked about the limits for a child with missing limbs? How do you measure standing height on a person whose legs stop above the knee? How long is it safe to rear face that person in this seat?
 

4boysmom

New member
Has anyone ever asked about the limits for a child with missing limbs? How do you measure standing height on a person whose legs stop above the knee? How long is it safe to rear face that person in this seat?

I have often thought similar thoughts but was not sure how to word it.
 

safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
See, the part I don't like is the lack of information. I want to know how the overall length of a child affects perfomance. Is it a mass-in-the-amount-of-space-inside the seat-well issue? Is it a CYA issue?

I don't like the "because we said so" aspect of it". It strikes me as being vague to the point where I suspect they haven't got a clue.
 

kalamos23

New member
I want to know what charts they are using for the 95th percentile boy height, the CDC or the WHO charts?

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Car-Seat.Org
 

HaileysMommy

New member
The 40" won't be an issue with DD unless I plan to keep her RF past 5. She is only 34.5 inches at 3.5 years old. Personally I'm going with CYA on this one.
 

djma

New member
To confuse things, I e-mailed Graco to kindly let them know that I was disappointed in the 40" rearfacing rule because it looked like a great seat. Their response????????? That there is no 40" stated rule. She asked where I saw that. So I responded that it's on-line as well as page 27 (thanks to the poster who put that!!).

So I guess we'll see.
 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
That doesn't surprise me. One of the things that frustrates me most is how buried this warning is. It's not in the size headers in the front of the manual, on the box, or on the stickers on the side of the seat. It's just in that one spot on p27. Kinda sad when cs doesn't even know it's there lol
 

Spam

New member
maybe they'll drop it out then? Wasn't there something in the Myride manual where it stated if the child's knees remain bent they couldn't rearface? That was removed wasn't it?
 

HaileysMommy

New member
Wonder if there will be a problem with me switching to the old style buckle. Give my ex the new buckle for the Nauti in his car and let him break a few fingernails on it :)
 

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