FB group question

[Carrie_R]

Darren, do you oversee the CSO FB too, or who do we contact with a concern about how a thread was handled? I am FB stupid and haven't a clue how to find administrators etc (plus I only have mobile access.)

 

[Patriot201]

If you click on the "members" list, the admin are listed.

I believe I know to which thread you are referring. Please be assured that the admin are taking care of it. There is a lot occurring "behind the scenes" (sometimes via PM between admin and the OP's) that isn't always seen on the public page.

 

[Carrie_R]

I'll try to figure that out.

Bottom line is, a parent was left hanging, waiting for assistance, and techs who were ready and willing to help (including techs that were already assisting) were forbidden from assisting her. That's not how cso has ever been run, and it's the type of heavy-handed administration that exists in other groups but not cso. If it's how the FB group is going to be run, I'd like to know so that I can remove myself from it, to be honest.

The thread I am referring to was the equivalent of pulling a tech from a car in the middle of a seat check and not sending anyone over to help out.

 

[Patriot201]

I understand what you're saying.

Sometimes, there are things happening with threads that might not be known to everyone else. Sometimes, the discussion needs to be taken to PM only (for one reason or another). Other times, there are decisions about approach being discussed among MANY people (not necessarily just admin) via PM. Still other times, there are things that occur, such as a mini-crisis at home for one or two admin that coincides with dinner for another few admin, that unexpectedly pull admin away and the timing can be poor. That would never be planned, of course, but a bleeding or vomiting child, a washing machine suddenly overflowing, or a weather emergency can cause things to go awry.

The CSO group is not a group with "heavy-handed" admin. What's happening with a thread may not always be visible to "the public."

 

[Admin]

Darren, do you oversee the CSO FB too, or who do we contact with a concern about how a thread was handled? I am FB stupid and haven't a clue how to find administrators etc (plus I only have mobile access.)

I am not on fb daily and mostly just see the reports, which I am reading now.

Can you PM me the link to the thread on fb please?

 

[Admin]

I'll try to figure that out.

Bottom line is, a parent was left hanging, waiting for assistance, and techs who were ready and willing to help (including techs that were already assisting) were forbidden from assisting her. That's not how cso has ever been run, and it's the type of heavy-handed administration that exists in other groups but not cso. If it's how the FB group is going to be run, I'd like to know so that I can remove myself from it, to be honest.

The thread I am referring to was the equivalent of pulling a tech from a car in the middle of a seat check and not sending anyone over to help out.

I read back and agree with your assessment.

Definitely not the appearance we want to give. My impression is just an unfortunate chain of events, combined with some private messages and admin discussions that led to the thread closure seeming premature and/or unnecessary to most reading it.

Sometimes things just don't get handled ideally for various reasons. In the age of instant repsonses, there is often overlap and cross posting, not only on one thread, but other threads and private messages among members and one or more admins. There are also often reports from other members or possibly a history that must be taken into account as well. Plus, we make mistakes, sometimes we take action too quickly, other times we wait too long. One admin may be involved, then have to leave for an extended time and hope the next admins can step in without necessarily knowing all the details.

It's a problem here on the forum from time to time, but almost daily on facebook. 99% of the time things are handled with no one blinking an eye. The other 1% of the time- well, we hope we can learn from things and try to improve our system. In this case it wasn't any one admin responsible, it seemed like the right direction at the time and sometimes that happens. Please bear with us when things don't seem handled well!

It's a rapidly growing facebook group and the reality is that sometimes as volunteers it takes a lot less time and effort to make quick decisions. Here on the forum where things are slower, we often have the luxury of being able to discuss a report or other issue for a day or more before taking any action, if any. On facebook it's a lot different, and likely will be even more difficult as the group gets larger.

I suspect on the biggest facebook groups, that's exactly why they sometimes may seem very quick to take actions like removing posts or banning members. While it was not the case in this thread, there are a lot of people that exist only to create drama or who are always extremely rude and argumentative and dealing with those people and issues sometimes carries over when admins deal with with an innocent thread like this one, unfortunately:-(

 

[CaseyRN]

I read the thread last night and was pretty shocked at the sudden statement for peeps to stop commenting. Just a suggestion for admins....maybe clarify to those just reading (like myself) that you are working with her through on and appreciate the concern of others blah blah blah vs just a pretty IMO rude statement then disappearance of those who were "allowed" to comment. And I won't even comment on all my opinions of that but to say we don't ever tell people to quit helping on threads in here so it seems hypocritical to me to do it on the CSO Facebook.

 

[SafeDad]

I read the thread last night and was pretty shocked at the sudden statement for peeps to stop commenting. Just a suggestion for admins....maybe clarify to those just reading (like myself) that you are working with her through on and appreciate the concern of others blah blah blah vs just a pretty IMO rude statement then disappearance of those who were "allowed" to comment. And I won't even comment on all my opinions of that but to say we don't ever tell people to quit helping on threads in here so it seems hypocritical to me to do it on the CSO Facebook.

Excellent suggestion, thank you!

I would like to say the same rules apply to both, but the reality is that it is mostly a different set of moderators and a totally different environment. People expect answers faster and it moves faster in general and there are a lot more people who just come to create problems, so it makes moderating a lot more difficult. But we recognize that a lot of our community have left the forum to go to facebook, so we do hope to provide a place for all of you there as well, even if it isn't the same! We do our best to keep the same general philosophy, of course.

 

[Carrie_R]

Sorry to drop some drama and run - work yesterday completely kicked my butt and I was incoherent by the end of the day :/

As a spectator, what appeared to happen in this thread was that there was a single technician primarily assisting a parent, with a few other comments in the mix (but nowhere near the pile-on that tends to ensue.) The thread was closed, but here was no drama or apparent reason to do so, and the tech that was assisting the parent was specifically admonished for continuing to post after what appeared to be a cross-post. I understand that sometimes things are going on behind the scenes, but in THIS case, the mom came back and asked a follow-up question. Ten minutes later, she asked if she had missed something, and made it clear that she was sitting in the car at that moment with her children trying to make adjustments to the seats. I ended up messaging her personally and it was very clear from her comments that there were not admins in contact with/assisting her - this particular mama was left to feeling a) as if she was taking time/attention away from other parents and b) apologizing left and right for asking for help. There were clearly multiple techs at the ready to assist her - judging by the fact that many did, once the order to stop posting was ignored - but all were "forbidden" to do so.

It was extraordinarily bothersome to me that there was a parent asking for help, techs were "ordered" to stop helping without any apparent precipitating reason, and then the parent was left hanging. I can handle the fact that sometimes things happen behind the scenes, and if the mom was being taken care of via PM or whatever, no problem. But it was a huge disservice to the parent to leave her hanging with no explanation. I understand that the tech may have overstepped by asking members not to dogpile etc - but that can be dealt with in a manner that doesn't leave a parent hanging.

For the record, although I did communicate with the tech in question when the thread was going down (checking to see if she'd reached out to this mama via PM,) I don't know her from Adam and haven't communicated with her before or since. I've got no horse in the race, aside from being immensely bothered by the way this parent was treated and the fact that techs were asked to stop assisting a parent in a thread that hadn't gone south.

My only goal is to make sure there's not another parent left in the same situation. A simple note of, "Hang on, Mama, we've got some admin issues going on behind the scenes, we're closing the thread for a moment but someone will be back to help you in 5/10/30 minutes" or even closing the thread to anyone except OP, admin *and* the tech currently "in the car" (so to speak.) Or if the issue was with the tech who was assisting, ask that person to stop posting but allow someone else to "hop in" and make sure the parent is taken care of.

All of that said... at the end of the day, it's not my business how groups choose to run themselves, and I don't get to make that decision. I brought this here specifically because I was gobsmacked at how contrary to the goal and spirit of CSO it seemed... a huge pendulum swing from "we want to remove barriers to assistance, so you don't even need to register," to "no techs are allowed to help here." As Patriot alluded to in her very first post, I typically *don't* find CSO to be heavy-handed on moderation, which is part of the reason I was so surprised to see that. If it's your feeling that the CSO FB group has essentially its own set of rules, I can certainly respect that, so that I can make my own judgements about participation and adjust accordingly. (I am pretty selective about what FB carseat groups I participate in, because there are some that aren't compatible with my philosophies as a tech.)

Anyways... I was pretty worked up when I posted this (it bothered me immensely to see a Mama sitting there struggling and asking for help and being "forbidden" to assist) but I do want to apologize, because in hindsight it probably should've been handled via PM. I went ahead and put this in the thread since it's "out there" already and there is an ongoing dialogue about it, it seemed appropriate. Apologies if it's stirred up drama, that was never my intention. I just want to make sure something is arranged to make sure parents aren't left hanging in the future.

 

[Admin]

I am glad you brought it to my attention, no worries at all. I had a similar impression as you reading it later, as I was not present when it happened. I can't recall any similar events in the last year or two since the facebook group became more active, but there will certainly be the rare thread that is not handled as well as we'd like. I can only say that like here on the forum, that unfortunately does happen sometimes when you have sporadic oversight from numerous volunteers, rather than a one or two full time employees to handle issues more consistently.

Anyway, it definitely was not handled as well as it could have been handled and all are welcome to post here or send me a private message if there is an issue that concerns you. We do hope to learn from complaints. Elizabeth (Brigala) is the "main" admin on facebook. UlrikeDG and Wendytthomas are also admins on fb as well has moderators here on the forum, so you are also welcome to message any one of them privately here if you have concerns not suitable for a public post.

And we will be needing more admins on the facebook group in the future as it continues to grow. Preference is to forum techs and also senior community members who participate there!

 

[Brigala]

I am really sorry about how that ended up appearing publicly. I was out of town taking care of real estate business, and on mobile, and was not involved AT ALL in the thread, and I did not even get a chance to read it, however it was my suggestion to the other admins via chat to close the thread to all but admins. I will tell you there was a lot going on in the background with the tech who was asked to stop commenting. I think I'm going to leave the details of that confidential, but what appeared to happen in public is not an accurate representation of what was actually going on. Unfortunately, it was the parent that got left in the lurch. The thread ended up not being handed well at all, but it was actually a whole freaking lot more complicated than it appeared and I am not sure logistically how we could have handled it any other way. The admins who were available at the time were in a situation that I can only describe as spinning their wheels in the mud due to the amount and nature of private messaging that was going on. Closing the thread was an attempt to get control of the situation, but it didn't end up working very well.

We're trying to figure out how to learn from the situation and do better in the future.

 

[Patriot201]

I am really sorry about how that ended up appearing publicly. I was out of town taking care of real estate business, and on mobile, and was not involved AT ALL in the thread, and I did not even get a chance to read it, however it was my suggestion to the other admins via chat to close the thread to all but admins. I will tell you there was a lot going on in the background with the tech who was asked to stop commenting. I think I'm going to leave the details of that confidential, but what appeared to happen in public is not an accurate representation of what was actually going on. Unfortunately, it was the parent that got left in the lurch. The thread ended up not being handed well at all, but it was actually a whole freaking lot more complicated than it appeared and I am not sure logistically how we could have handled it any other way. The admins who were available at the time were in a situation that I can only describe as spinning their wheels in the mud due to the amount and nature of private messaging that was going on. Closing the thread was an attempt to get control of the situation, but it didn't end up working very well.

We're trying to figure out how to learn from the situation and do better in the future.

:yeahthat:

We realize we made some mistakes, but as Brigala said, it was a much more complicated situation than it appeared to be.

A few of us also had issues pop up at home (ranging from needing to eat dinner to mini-crises) while dealing with that thread. I am sorry that I had to "abandon" the OP to deal with a moderately serious issue at home, but I'm not sure how else I could have dealt with what was occurring. It was about two minutes after closing the thread that my issue at home arose. I'm sorry.

We are trying our best, but are learning from our mistakes, as well.

 

[UlrikeDG]

You can also report threads on FB. Doing so brings it to the attention to Admins who might be online at the time.