European seat belts, do they lock?

[Liba]

I live abroad and just bought a car. We rented many times before we bought and always had to use the isofix connectors to install my son's car seat since the seat belts don't seem to lock. Pulling them out all of the way and then letting them go back they still move freely.

We bought a Mazda3. The manual we have isn't in English, so I googled and pulled up the American version, which shows the seatbelts doing what I remember they did in the states, but they don't lock when I try. For now we are using the Isofix anchors with my son's Britax Frontier. Recently someone asked me for a ride but her baby's seat didn't have isofix or latch connectors and I couldn't get it installed properly so I couldn't take them.

Do I need to buy an infant/toddler seat with isofix to be able to give people with small children/infants rides or is there a way to lock the seat belts or is their a European trick I am missing?

I found the Maxi Cosi manual on line and there is no mention of locking clips, locking the seat belt or anything that I could see http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/02/uk-baby/PDFs/Dorel/Pebble._V181798850_.pdf I must be missing something though.

Thank you!!

 

[featherhead]

I think the little clip on the back of the seat that the shoulder belt goes through is a seatbelt lock-off, so you wouldn't need to use a locking clip. I think most European seats will have some sort of lock-off, since locking seatbelts is not common (I could be wrong about this).

 

[Liba]

Thank you for the reply! I will have to look at the infant seats sold here.

So, I was likely right, that I couldn't safely install an American infant seat that didn't have latch since I didn't have a locking clip?

 

[redsox_baby]

You're in Israel, right? (I recognize you from Flyertalk!)

If you don't know Hebrew to read the car manual but you can post a picture of the relevant page or whatever, I can read it for you and give you the situation on the seatbelts as discussed in the manual. I speak Hebrew.

 

[featherhead]

Thank you for the reply! I will have to look at the infant seats sold here.

So, I was likely right, that I couldn't safely install an American infant seat that didn't have latch since I didn't have a locking clip?

All American carseats (aside from boosters) will have LATCH. If it doesn't, it is likely very expired. Some American seats also have seatbelt lock-offs.

 

[Liba]

When did latch become mandatory in the US? It would certainly help me to know that the seat was expired if it didn't have latch. Then it isn't my cars issue that I can't use their seat, but their seat being expired that is the problem... I can educate instead of just feeling bad.

Does that mean I could get a cheap (though safe) infant seat (or infant toddler seat) in the US and it would be guaranteed to have latch straps? I don't want to invest a lot of money in a seat for very occasional use, but I want to have a safe seat to offer when I am in this position again.

 

[LISmama810]

An infant seat without the base wouldn't have LATCH, though.

Rather than buying an entire seat just to transport other kids on occasion, I'd just buy a locking clip so you can lock the belt.

If you're going to be transporting other children on a regular basis, a new seat might be worth it, but I wouldn't bother otherwise.

 

[Liba]

Some of the people wanting rides are family and notorious for outdated (think 20 year old) car seats. I am known as the family car seat fanatic mostly because they just don't care or get the safety implications. They happily use seats missing parts (straps tied together since they are missing buckles etc) and think they are fine.

I don't want to always have to say no to giving them rides since the buses aren't always convenient. For the sake of safety and family peace I would like to have a seat available BUT I am not sure that it is practical. Leaving it in the trunk of the car isn't going to be great for the plastic since I live in a hot country especially and if it is home I will only have it if I have advance notice that we will need it.

I found the information on the latch law starting in 2002, but we are mostly talking infant seats without the base, so there wouldn't be latch connectors anyway.

Thanks!!

 

[lorismurph]

If you were to get a seat, I'd get a cheap convertible (Scenera or Tribute) that will fit infants, toddlers, and some preschoolers. It would come with LATCH for sure.

 

[Brigala]

Does that mean I could get a cheap (though safe) infant seat (or infant toddler seat) in the US and it would be guaranteed to have latch straps? I don't want to invest a lot of money in a seat for very occasional use, but I want to have a safe seat to offer when I am in this position again.

Yes. A Scenera would work well. It will transport an infant through an average 3-4 year old child and can be installed with LATCH either rear-facing or forward-facing.

It will also come with a locking clip which you can use with an infant seat that doesn't have the base with it.

If you want to be able to transport just about any kid in relative safely, you might also want to pick up an inexpensive low-back booster like this one and you can use that for a child who has outgrown a Scenera. It's not perfect, but it's cheap and it won't take up much space.

 

[Liba]

Thanks.

I have a low back booster for my seven year old and a harnessed Frontier (25-85lbs), it is just the up to 25lb crowd I am unable to transport safely.

I am still leaning toward a Britax with built in locking clips since if I use the seat belt to install I wouldn't have to move the Frontier which is in the middle of the back seat, using the inside isofix anchors on a day to daily basis.

I am sad that our Roundabout expired. It would have totally filled the gap, but kids grow up and seats grow old.

The Britax B-Safe looks really narrow, so likely to fit next to the Frontier, has built in lockoffs and an upper weight limit of 30lbs. Will a typical child really fit in the B-Safe until close to 30lbs? If I have the B-Safe and the Frontier would I need a third seat? It looks almost too good to be true.

Thanks!

 

[newyorkDOC]

European seats are made to be used without automatic retracting locks. Most EU cars do not have it and most EU car seats do not have lock offs not do they come with locking clips. The belt paths are different and are supposed to compensate for this.

I would not call the belt guide on the back of the maxi cosi cabriofix a lock off. You can move the belt around even once it's tightened.

If an American seat requires either ALR or a lock off I'd get a locking clip.

 

[Liba]

European seats are made to be used without automatic retracting locks. Most EU cars do not have it and most EU car seats do not have lock offs not do they come with locking clips. The belt paths are different and are supposed to compensate for this.

I would not call the belt guide on the back of the maxi cosi cabriofix a lock off. You can move the belt around even once it's tightened.

If an American seat requires either ALR or a lock off I'd get a locking clip.

Thank you for the reply!!

So how do you get the seat properly tightened if the belt can still move? What makes more sense in a European car, an American car seat (like a Britax from the USA) with built in lock offs or a European car seat made for European cars. FWIW I am in a country that requires car seats, and even does periodic stops of cars to check for that they are being used, but doesn't care who certifies them.

 

[redsox_baby]

never mind, I guess.

 

[Liba]

You're in Israel, right? (I recognize you from Flyertalk!)

If you don't know Hebrew to read the car manual but you can post a picture of the relevant page or whatever, I can read it for you and give you the situation on the seatbelts as discussed in the manual. I speak Hebrew.

That is me! I am not sure how I missed your kind offer! I could break my teeth and read it, but before I realized there were differences I downloaded the English version which is much easier. It is raining, but when I go to the car I will make the effort to try to figure it out. Thanks.

 

[newyorkDOC]

Honestly I don't think it really matters. You just have to install the seat properly for that seat. If an American seat requires ALR and the car doesn't have it, just use a locking clip.

I only know how my cabriofix and TWE work. I'll be honest and say I was always sort of leery about the cabriofix and I think for the next kid we'll get the base (old car didn't have ISOFIX). With the TWE there's no way the belt can move due to the way it's routed under the seat.

 

[Brigala]

Will a typical child really fit in the B-Safe until close to 30lbs? If I have the B-Safe and the Frontier would I need a third seat? It looks almost too good to be true.

Nope. It would have to be a really short fat kid to still fit in a B-safe at 25 lbs. Also the Frontier has a minimum age requirement of two years old. You'd be better off with a Scenera, and use a locking clip if you need to install with the seat belt.

Does your car have ISOFIX anchors in the center? In the U.S. that's really rare. That would be a cool feature in European cars if that's standard.

 

[Liba]

There are only outboard anchors, but the manual specifically said that they could be borrowed by the middle seat if the seat allows.

I read the Hebrew manual and it says that the seat belts should lock if pulled all of the way out. They don't. I have tried, DH has tried, we know how it should work since our cars in the US did.

This is a 2006 car that I bought used. Not one of the three back belts lock, which leaves me scratching my head in wonder. If one wasn't I would think it was damaged, but all three? I am a bit worried about the functionality of the belts all together. If you yank them they lock briefly so I think they should work as regular seat belts, but I don't know.

 

[lenats31]

ECE R approved baby seats have a blue beltguide/lockoff on the back. Some of these can be used in conjunction with a belted base unit. These base units have lockoffs too.

The Maxi Cosi Pebble can be used both with and without a base.

Personally I do not know of any European style Mazda car that has ALR belts. I could be wrong tough. Some exspensive car brands have them.

 

[Liba]

ECE R approved baby seats have a blue beltguide/lockoff on the back. Some of these can be used in conjunction with a belted base unit. These base units have lockoffs too.

The Maxi Cosi Pebble can be used both with and without a base.

Personally I do not know of any European style Mazda car that has ALR belts. I could be wrong tough. Some exspensive car brands have them.

I think you may well be right. I have rented quite a few cars and have never ever come across a car with ALR belts, hence my surprise that the manual said they had them. I think they translated the US manual and it is a European car.

I am going to have to peruse some baby stores and check out what car seats are easily available here.

Thanks!!