News Dodge Grand Caravans and RFing Tethering

[oddduck]

With required rear facing tethering I contacted Dodge Canada and ask a few questions about what is allowed and not allowed in their vehicles.

They provided excellent detailed responses so I thought I would share.

The Dodge Grand Caravan is not equipped with anchorages for tethering rear-facing child restraints to the floor of the vehicle. There are no approved anchorages for this purpose in the vehicle. Also, it is not permitted to use an aftermarket tethering device, like the strap and D-ring provided by Britax, to attach a child restraint to a vehicle or vehicle seat structure. This means that the forward or “Swedish” tethering method (shown as option B in the Britax manual) cannot be used in the Dodge Grand Caravan in either rear seating row.

The car seat can and should be tethered in the rearward or “Australian” manner (shown as option A in the Britax manual), using the supplied tether anchorage on the back of the vehicle seat. The directions for attaching the tether strap in this vehicle state: “Route the top tether strap under the adjustable head restraint between the steel posts.” Because the Britax tether strap is shaped like a “V”, it may be easier to install it with the straps passing around the outside of the head restraint posts instead of between them. The strap still must go under and not over the head restraint. I have attached illustrations below to help you.

Here is an attached copy of the illustration from the Britax owner’s manual below, for reference.

Britax user guides can also be found at this website: http://www.britax.ca/support/user-guides.

The illustrations from the Grand Caravan owner’s manual, also attached, show the location of the tether anchorage on either the captain’s chair or the third row bench seat. The tether strap shown is a single strap, not a “V” like the Britax strap. It is permitted, with a V-shaped tether, to pass the straps around the outside of the head restraint posts as long as (a) the straps will stay on the back of the seat and not slide down, and (b) the straps still pass underneath the head restraint. I have sketched what it will look like in the image attached called Caravan seats.

I hope this both answers your questions and helps you to properly install your car seat in your vehicle.

​

 

[oddduck]

Then of course someone suggested I ask a secondary, related question.

"If I was using this child restraint in the 3rd row rear facing in the outboard positions -- would it be permitted to tether the seat to the tether anchors located on the second row captain chairs?"

This is Dodge Canada's reponse:

No, it is not permitted to attach the tether anchorage to the back of the second row seat when installing the car seat in the third row. The second row anchorages were not designed or tested for managing the forces of a child restraint in the row behind them. Only the anchorage behind the designated seating position is approved for tethering a car seat. That also means that the child seat may only be installed in the second row or in the center of the third row, which are the only positions that have a tether anchorage.

The diagrams below show the anchorages available in the vehicle (either captain’s chairs or a second row bench seat). The symbols indicate that these positions have both lower anchorages and a tether anchorage. These are the only seating positions where the child restraint can be installed properly. The third row outboard seating positions have neither lower anchorages nor a tether anchorage, so the car seat cannot be installed in the third row outboard positions and tethered properly.
Hope this helps clarify.

Thanks!
​

 

[tiggercat]

Is this specific to Grand Caravans, or would similar ban on swedish tethering exist in all dodge vehicles?

 

[snowbird25ca]

Is this specific to Grand Caravans, or would similar ban on swedish tethering exist in all dodge vehicles?

I have been told before that Dodge and Toyota both don't allow Swedish style rf tethering. This is the first exact quote I've seen though, prior to now it has been second hand information from a reliable source.

Clearly the person who replied to these emails knew what they were talking about. I'd say it's a pretty solid NO for Swedish tethering in Dodge vehicles.

eta: Did you happen to ask about Australian style tethering in their pick-ups and if they might allow the loop in the matching seating position? Pretty sure a tether wouldn't reach a seating position over after going through the routing loops if it had to be routed the normal way.

 

[canadiangie]

Impressive email!

I get so excited when people know what they are talking about and are able to communicate things effectively. It's so rare these days.

 

[aept]

What the what? Sorry to derail this with my US question in the Canadian subforum, but does anyone know if this all applies to US Dodge vehicles? (I'm guessing RF tethering is only mandatory in Canada, but I do prefer to RF tether, and to do so Swedish style!)

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org

 

[snowbird25ca]

What the what? Sorry to derail this with my US question in the Canadian subforum, but does anyone know if this all applies to US Dodge vehicles? (I'm guessing RF tethering is only mandatory in Canada, but I do prefer to RF tether, and to do so Swedish style!)

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org

Best way to find out would be to contact them. I'm not sure if Canada and US Dodge share the same customer service contact or not? This response was thorough enough I'd expect others to be able to easily reference it.

I'm naturally conservative and would say that whatever their concern is in Canadian vehicles is likely present in US vehicles too so it may be a good idea to not Swedish tether in an American Dodge/Chrysler vehicle until/unless you can get permission to.

The RF tethering being mandatory only applies to the Britax G4 seats, the Radian is optional for RF tethering up here and nobody else provides a D-ring.

 

[canadiangie]

Does anyone have a GC and a G4 (or G3 if the tether strap is in fact the same length as the G4s) and could try Aussie tethering to see if there is enough length?

Dollars to donuts my first G4 will be in a GC. I have that kind of luck.

 

[skiersnowboarder3]

I have been told before that Dodge and Toyota both don't allow Swedish style rf tethering. This is the first exact quote I've seen though, prior to now it has been second hand information from a reliable source.

Clearly the person who replied to these emails knew what they were talking about. I'd say it's a pretty solid NO for Swedish tethering in Dodge vehicles.

eta: Did you happen to ask about Australian style tethering in their pick-ups and if they might allow the loop in the matching seating position? Pretty sure a tether wouldn't reach a seating position over after going through the routing loops if it had to be routed the normal way.

What the what? Sorry to derail this with my US question in the Canadian subforum, but does anyone know if this all applies to US Dodge vehicles? (I'm guessing RF tethering is only mandatory in Canada, but I do prefer to RF tether, and to do so Swedish style!)

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org

Um, yeah, my van is a caravan and we frequently ride in my mil's Toyota sequoia. I bought a Britax and a radian because they could be tethered. Now I can't use the d ring? I guess I could get used to the Australian way but honestly I feel like the straps would always be in the way. Why is this just coming up now? Why wouldn't it be in the latch manual? I think it's the 2007 version I have but I know I have read that thing pretty much cover to cover and I've never seen even a mention of this potential problem.

 

[canadiangie]

Bumping for the unregistered guest with the G4 tethering question in her T&C.

 

[BarbieWD]

I have a G3 and an '07 Grand Caravan and when all of the G4 rf tethering info came I did go and try it in my van. It just reaches, I think I had maybe 4 inches, maybe, of tail left BUT I only have a Marathon. Unless the tether strap is longer on the models with the air cushions (advocate? And?) I can't see it reaching on those models. And all 3 seating positions with anchors used about same amount of strap length except the offset UAS in the 3rd row..... My strap was fully extended with the offset UAS and it was just weird, I wouldn't recommend it and I wonder if Chrysler wouldn't like it either.... It's just funky in my opinion.

 

[Alison's Mom]

I have been told before that Dodge and Toyota both don't allow Swedish style rf tethering.

Thanks for this. Is there a list somewhere of which vehicle manufacturers allow Swedish style and which don't?

 

[Pixelated]

I've sent a similar inquiry to Honda. If anyone else is inclined to ask for specific clarification from other manufacturers please do, and share the response.

 

[5littleH2OBabies]

Does anyone have a GC and a G4 (or G3 if the tether strap is in fact the same length as the G4s) and could try Aussie tethering to see if there is enough length?

Dollars to donuts my first G4 will be in a GC. I have that kind of luck.

I think you jinxed yourself. My computer won't let me log in, but if you're still a member of CSFTL, we need your help with this exact issue, and she's from your local. Help?

 

[SnoGurl]

I am looking to contact a couple manufacturers I frequently install in-- is anyone willing to share the wording they used to email? I want to make sure I'm as clear and concise as possible.

 

[Pixelated]

I am looking to contact a couple manufacturers I frequently install in-- is anyone willing to share the wording they used to email? I want to make sure I'm as clear and concise as possible.

I've posted on a few FB pages - that seems to be a decent way to get their attention. However, no one yet knows what I'm asking. There is a LOT of back and forth.

However, here is some text to get you started:

I'm a car seat tech and instructor in Canada, helping parents to use and install their seats correctly. There's a new seat on the market that requires the use of the tether while the car seat is installed rear-facing. This can be done in one of two ways.

First is Australian-style, which routes the tether over the top of the car seat and connects to the designated tether anchor for that seating position - awkward, but generally acceptable as far as I know.

The second, for which I would appreciate specific clarification as to if it's approved by Toyota or not, is called Swedish-style. A tether anchor point is created by wrapping a provided 10" piece of webbing + bracket around an unmovable point forward and down from the seat, for example on the seat track leg in the row in front. This method is more convenient for parents but potentially causes interference with other safety systems such as front passenger air bags depending on sensor locations.

Is Swedish-style tethering permitted in any model year Toyota? Are there approved locations if so? What about in a 3-row vehicle - can it be done in the 3rd row by tethering to something in the 2nd row? Can the car seat's tether hook be directly connected to a designated tether anchor in the 2nd row, bypassing the need for the provided 10" strap?

If any of the above is unclear I can provide photos/diagrams. This is a hot topic in the child passenger safety world this past week and I'm attempting to get written clarification from as many vehicle manufacturers as possible. Any information would be much appreciated.

I do not put any attachments or links in there though as it can easily get bounced. Add that later once you have a correspondence going.

 

[canadiangie]

I think you jinxed yourself. My computer won't let me log in, but if you're still a member of CSFTL, we need your help with this exact issue, and she's from your local. Help?

I am still a member, I believe. How can I help?

 

[SnoGurl]

I've posted on a few FB pages - that seems to be a decent way to get their attention. However, no one yet knows what I'm asking. There is a LOT of back and forth.

However, here is some text to get you started:



I do not put any attachments or links in there though as it can easily get bounced. Add that later once you have a correspondence going.

Thanks Jen, I appreciate that. I changed it up a bit and sent if off to a few manufacturers. I'm interested in consistency of responses (or rather inconsistency, I suppose), so hopefully a few people send off.

 

[carolyn_mtl]

Thanks Jen, I sent off a msg to Mazda.. I'll post when I get a response.

 

[5littleH2OBabies]

I am still a member, I believe. How can I help?

I'll have to get on a computer and post a link, but she was having issues with her new G4 and a GC.