Do YOU trust SuperLatch?

[joolsplus3]

Yeah, assuming a good install and top tether.

 

[LISmama810]

seatbelts have been around a long time but the current design is new. meh, I guess I feel like their is a lack of proof for the 3-point sliding latchplate design used with carseats just as there is for the sl. No matter how I attach my cr I am relying on a great deal of mathematical modeling.

Maybe...But the vehicle manufacturer and car seat manufacturer both allow seatbelt installs to the maximum weight limit of the seat. In this case, vehicles are saying, "No! Don't use LATCH past this amount!" and the car seat manufacturer is saying, "Nah, it's cool."

Any time there's a discrepancy like this, I default to the more conservative number.

 

[tracee877]

I don't have Radians anymore but if I did, yes I would trust it. I never had any of the loosening problems with the several Radians I owned.

 

[tiggercat]

Car seats themselves aren't tested in every vehicle on the market. There is a good deal of extrapolation that goes on. I don't understand why a 3 point belt is assumed to be safer when we really don't have proof that it's safe either, with diono, or anyone else for that matter. Aren't they only required to test with uas and lap belt?

The canadian 2013 regs require child restraints to pass testing with the lap/shoulder belt, I am not sure if fmvss also requires this? I don't think that is what you are asking, though.
Ultimately I think it comes down to design constraints. UAS was designed to hold a traditional 40/48lb limit child restraint as was typical during the development process, while a seatbelt was designed to hold a fully grown man. We know seatbelts hold, while manufacturers of vehicles are telling us that UAS has a 40/48lb limit. Who is Diono to say what the vehicle's anchors can hold?

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[tiggercat]

FTR, the SuperLATCH loosening is less of a concern to me than the fact that Sunshine Kids/Diono is telling people to disregard their vehicles' instructions. I don't like that kind of audacity.

Isn't that kind of similar to the whole "creating" a RF tether point with the D-ring? Vehicle manufacturers don't approve those either, yet Britax and Diono essentially say it is ok to use an untested location anyway.

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[jacqui276]

I would trust it. However, my car is pre-2005 and I get a much better install with a seat belt over LATCH so my opinion really doesn't make a difference. I would only use it if I couldn't get a good install with a seat belt but LATCH worked. I prefer seat belt installs all around though since I find them easier.

 

[Syllieann]

The 2013 regs require child restraints to pass testing with the lap/shoulder belt. I don't think that is what you are asking, though.
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Yes, that is the crux of what I was getting at. . I would feel better about switching to sb if I knew it was actually tested that way, rather than switching from one unproven system to another unproven system. Not that it matters for my situation though since I don't particularly like the radian as a ff seat.

 

[LISmama810]

Isn't that kind of similar to the whole "creating" a RF tether point with the D-ring? Vehicle manufacturers don't approve those either, yet Britax and Diono essentially say it is ok to use an untested location anyway.

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But a RF tether point isn't holding the seat in or absorbing crash forces. It's there for rebound control. That's way different than the primary means of securing a restraint.

There's also a difference between a vehicle being mute on an issue and a vehicle giving explicit instructions. If Chrysler suddenly said, "Absolutely do not create a rear-facing tether anchor in our vehicles," I would heed that advice, even if I didn't understand why. In this case, vehicles ARE saying not to use LATCH beyond a certain weight, and another company is telling people it's fine to disregard that.

(There are also people who won't create RF tether-points specifically because the vehicles don't allow it.)

 

[bobandjess99]

I do in fact believe that the superlatch itself, if tight to start, will not fail all the way up to 80 pounds. I'm certain they have tested it with that amount of force. However, despite what they claim, I do not believe the vehicle latch anchors won't fail. And, I had an issue where the SL absolutely would NOT stay tight in my vehicle anyway, so it was moot. I couldn't use the damn thing.

 

[tiggercat]

But a RF tether point isn't holding the seat in or absorbing crash forces. It's there for rebound control. That's way different than the primary means of securing a restraint.

There's also a difference between a vehicle being mute on an issue and a vehicle giving explicit instructions. If Chrysler suddenly said, "Absolutely do not create a rear-facing tether anchor in our vehicles," I would heed that advice, even if I didn't understand why. In this case, vehicles ARE saying not to use LATCH beyond a certain weight, and another company is telling people it's fine to disregard that.

(There are also people who won't create RF tether-points specifically because the vehicles don't allow it.)

I spend a lot of time with people who won't create RF tether points I am the rogue RF tetherer in the group.

I agree in some ways, it's not the primary form of restraint, and there is not really a reason to think the created point will fail.

However, any vehicle new enough for advanced airbags indicates that you not pull/push on, modify, or otherwise affect the front vehicle seats. So wrapping the D-ring around the seat track or underseat structures is directly against manufacturer's directions. No? And if you call and ask manufacturers, many give different answers depending who you talk to and how well they understand your question.

Anyway, I wasn't meaning to misdirect the thread, just drawing a parallel.

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[LISmama810]

However, any vehicle new enough for advanced airbags indicates that you not pull/push on, modify, or otherwise affect the front vehicle seats. So wrapping the D-ring around the seat track or underseat structures is directly against manufacturer's directions. No?

Depends on the manufacturer. They have different ways of determining the information needed for advanced airbags. Some have no restrictions on items/objects on the setbacks; others do. Some allow pushing on the back of the seat, but not pushing up from under the seat. I'm not sure if any specifically address seat legs.

As with anything, it's important to take each individual vehicle's restrictions into consideration. Just because one vehicle allows/disallows something doesn't mean that another one will/won't.

If someone wants to make the parental decision to use SuperLATCH beyond what the vehicle allows, that's fine. But as a tech, I can't give it my unequivocal blessing, and I won't do it myself for my own kids.

 

[careynj]

No, I don't. My radian is installed with a belt and I actually removed the UAS because I was sick of it rattling beside my head. I also don't rear face tether.

 

[carseatcoach]

Moot point for me: I'd probably not panic if my kid went a pound or two past the magical 48# while SuperLATCHed (properly used, etc.), but no way would I trust it to 80#. As I wrote, it's moot for me anyhow, but I don't think I'd *need* a harnessed seat to go to 80# in any mode, anyhow.

 

[Kappy]

Ultimately I think it comes down to design constraints. UAS was designed to hold a traditional 40/48lb limit child restraint as was typical during the development process, while a seatbelt was designed to hold a fully grown man. We know seatbelts hold, while manufacturers of vehicles are telling us that UAS has a 40/48lb limit. Who is Diono to say what the vehicle's anchors can hold?

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This is why I won't use SuperLATCH beyond what my vehicle states. She just said it nicer.

 

[Syllieann]

The older uas was designed for 40 to 48 lbs but those cars aren't new enough for super latch anyway. The vehicles we are talking about have lower anchors designed to withstand 11000 N each, for a total of 22000N and then since any uas will have tt available the tt are required to withstand an additional 500N. Thats a grand total of 22500N. For comparison, a lap belt must withstand 22,241N. The direction and time varies a bit but overall we are looking at two very strong systems. I definitely understand if someone distrusts diono's connectors but I still don't get the idea that the seatbelt is safer than the anchors.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=571.209
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...sr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=571.225&keyword=225

The 3pt is around 31kN for further comparison

 

[bubbaray]

The older uas was designed for 40 to 48 lbs but those cars aren't new enough for super latch anyway. The vehicles we are talking about have lower anchors designed to withstand 11000 N each, for a total of 22000N and then since any uas will have tt available the tt are required to withstand an additional 500N. Thats a grand total of 22500N. For comparison, a lap belt must withstand 22,241N. The direction and time varies a bit but overall we are looking at two very strong systems. I definitely understand if someone distrusts diono's connectors but I still don't get the idea that the seatbelt is safer than the anchors.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=571.209
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=571.225&keyword=225

The 3pt is around 31kN for further comparison

My issue is with Diono/SK. I don't like how they handled the SL and various other issues. Frankly, if Britax (or Graco or Evenflo) had come out with SL, I would probably be just fine with it. I've never sensed that Britax was cavalier with my children's safety. I'm constantly getting that vibe from Diono. Oh, do whatever, loosening SL, not our problem, here is a manual change on our FB page, blah blah blah.

 

[mlohry]

No, I don't. My radian is installed with a belt and I actually removed the UAS because I was sick of it rattling beside my head. I also don't rear face tether.

Can I ask why you don't RF tether? Is it the ride down effect that wouldn't be so jarring if not tethered?

 

[Kappy]

I don't believer either to be superior over the other. Both options are wonderful, and I always let my caregivers know that I stand on neutral ground in that respect.

My issue is totally with Diono saying it's all gravy when it contradicts what my vehicle manual says.

 

[christineka]

I have one radian with super latch and it stays tight for my seat. My vehicle was made after 2005 and it's latch limit defers to the manufacturer. I'm comfortable using super latch. I do have lightweight kids, so we'll see if I ever test it above 48 pounds. Child in the seat is currently only 30.

 

[careynj]

When I took my tech certification in Canada it was laid out that if there is not an approved location you don't just make one. So, no RF tether

Can I ask why you don't RF tether? Is it the ride down effect that wouldn't be so jarring if not tethered?