Booster Seat Tipping Over

[Unregistered]

Hello Everyone -- first-timer here hoping for some wisdom. We are looking for a new family SUV. 2006 Acura MDX was on top of list, but when we did a test drive with our 4-yr-old in center position we found that the car sear tipped about 30 degrees with moderate cornering. The issue appears to be that the sear belt head extends from between the seats on a flexible neck. As a point of reference, we found the Jeep Commander to be the same way, but the VW Touareg and the Volvo XC90 to not have the issue.

Seat is the Compass Adjustable Folding Booster, but I'm having a hard time seeing how another seat would be different. This issue may not be a huge one, but it seems less than ideal in an accident or accident avoidance situation to have a child leaning way over to the side or maybe even having the seat turn and flip.

TIA for any thoughts...

 

[BW1426]

Welcome to the board. I'm sure we can get down to the bottom of your issues.

The Commander is notorious for issues due to the headrests it has. Some headrests push seats forward so they are not flush with the booster. In some vehicles you can remove the headrests which eliminates the issue, but it some vehicles the headrests are not removable (such as the commander). Also, I just want to double check that all center positions you've tried the booster in have had lap shoulder belts.

You mentioned your child was 4. 4 years old and 40 lbs is really the absolute bare minimum for booster use. We generally like to see children in a 5 point harness longer because very few 4 year olds have the impulse control to safely ride in a booster.

 

[Unregistered]

Thanks for the quick reply. I don't think the headrest is the issue (at least in the center seating position). It would be in outboard positions though. My daughter is 44" tall and weighs 44 lbs. Her torso is longer than average for her height, which is why we moved her to a booster seat. She does well with it behavior-wise.

I did some searching after my first post (whoops!) and see that tipping issues are not that uncommon. Not sure if any seats are way less likely to tip though. The seat belt strap/neck still seems to be a big part of this. It seems like that flexibility in the MDX and the Commander allow the seat to move more, which leads to tipping.

We have pretty much written off the Commander, but would really like to purchase an MDX. Hard to do that though knowing that other vehicles seem to prevent the issue.

 

[canadiangie]

Do you prefer her in the middle? Would you move her to a different seating location? Would you be opposed to a different booster seat?

If you intend to keep her in a booster seat, I'd prefer something a bit more supportive, something with side impact headwings, and possibly (since tipping is an issue) something that allows for LATCH use (though keep in mind the MDX does not have LATCH in the middle seating position).

I'm thinking you should move her outboard (to the side) and invest in a Sunshine Kids Monterey.

And of course the ideal is that she might go back into a 5 point harness. Something like a Britax Frontier. Keeps kids harnessed for a long time, later converts to a LATCHable highback booster with excellent side impact protection.

 

[Unregistered]

No issue with buying a new seat, I'm just not sure what would tip less. I've seen opinions that suggest that latchable boosters may not be the way to go, because in an accident the seat belt may not tension properly if the seat is locked in. But if we are talking 5 point harness I suppose that issue is solved.

I really prefer the center position. Seems like actual research, not just opinions, backs that up as being safest spot. Is that the consensus around here, or is that still debatable?

It sure seems like the majority of folks investing so much time and energy here are proponents of keeping kids harnessed as long as possible. I suppose I need to consider that again regardless of all other issues.

 

[Maedze]

At that age, I would prefer to see your child in a five point harness seat, which also incidentally resolve the tipping issue.

The Graco Nautilus would fit her well and last for years to come

Even though she does meet the minimums for booster use, maturity at that age is a huge factor. She may do well 90% of the time, (and I have a four year old of similar size who also does well for many short booster rides) most four year olds will forget themselves, lean forward out of the shoulder belt, wiggle their tushies forward so the lap belt rides up, reach for a fallen toy on the floor, etc.

Also, the Compass booster tends not to fit little booster riders well. The lap belt tends to ride up too high on the tummy even when the child is sitting perfectly upright.

So my advice would be to encourage you to purchase and use a five point harness seat

 

[Unregistered]

Maedze, just to clarify, the 5 point harness seat solves the tipping problem simply because it latches, correct? If so, then I cannot use center seat position on 06 Acura MDX. Any thoughts on center vs outboard position with the Nautilus? I've got it burned in to my brain that center is better, but you folks clearly have done more homework than I, for which I am very thankful.

I'd like to buy an MDX, but can certainly go in a different direction if necessary.

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback.

 

[Jeanum]

A 5-point harnessed seat would solve the tipping problem you're encountering with the Compass belt positioning booster seat because the harnessed seat needs to be properly installed with less than 1 inch of movement at the belt path, either with the vehicle seatbelt or with the lower LATCH anchors. It's also worth noting that most vehicles and some child restraints have weight limits for installing them with LATCH in harnessed mode. Acuras have a child weight limit of 40 lbs. and Jeeps/Chrylsers have a weight limit of 48 lbs. for installing a seat in harnessed mode with LATCH. The Nautilus you're considering has a LATCH installation weight limit of 48 lbs. in harnessed mode if the vehicle doesn't specify a lower LATCH installation weight limit. That said, the LATCH installation weight limit doesn't apply in belt positioning booster mode for child restraints that allow LATCHing in booster mode, though, because in booster mode the vehicle seatbelt serves the primary role of restraining the child in the booster. Sorry if I'm making this clear as mud, but there is a lot to ponder and you would want to factor this into the overall decision.

Center is considered somewhat safer than outboard due to its farther proximity from a potential side impact collision. However, a proper installation using an allowable installation method in the vehicle is the primary goal for safety. FWIW, the '07 and newer Acura MDX models do have lower LATCH anchors for installing in the center seating position. It's the pre-'07 MDX models that have lower LATCH anchors for the outboard positions only.

 

[joolsplus3]

You can install the Nautilus in the center position with the seatbelt and top tether, you don't need to use the lower anchors to install it
And I think it's often more the booster than the car that causes the tipping issues when you use a booster seat later...there may be other boosters that don't tip as much as the Compass (I would HOPE the Nautilus doesn't if you get it, that would save you another purchase, but something like the Clek Oobr has a heavier base that might keep it from tipping so much, for example, or the Monterey is just so sturdy that it might not tip even without being LATCHed in place)

 

[Maedze]

Maedze, just to clarify, the 5 point harness seat solves the tipping problem simply because it latches, correct? If so, then I cannot use center seat position on 06 Acura MDX. Any thoughts on center vs outboard position with the Nautilus? I've got it burned in to my brain that center is better, but you folks clearly have done more homework than I, for which I am very thankful.

I'd like to buy an MDX, but can certainly go in a different direction if necessary.

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback.

No, it solves the problem because a properly installed car seat, with LATCH OR seatbelt, will not tip over.

Also, a five point harness outboard, if that is the way you choose to go, is safer than a booster in the middle.

 

[demiro]

Hi. I am the OP; finally registered.

So, how is this plan: Nautilus in center position in 06 MDX. Not LATCHed, but tethered, using 5 point harness. Not sure if there is a tether connection, but that can be installed.

Not asking for guarantees that it won't somehow be "tippy", just wondering if that is sound reasoning.

Thanks!

 

[demiro]

No, it solves the problem because a properly installed car seat, with LATCH OR seatbelt, will not tip over.
Also, a five point harness outboard, if that is the way you choose to go, is safer than a booster in the middle.

Not picking a fight in any way here , but are you saying that my current Compass seat won't tip if installed properly? That would be good news, but kind of hard to believe. The install is so simple I don't see how it could be wrong. After the first tipping incident my wife and I figured we had something messed up, as we had quickly put the car seat into car we were test driving, but we could not improve the performance.

 

[joolsplus3]

That car definitely has a top anchor in the middle, probably down behind the seat and hard to find, though.

No, the Compass will always be tippy in the middle, she's saying a 'properly installed harnessed car seat' won't be tippy once it's installed tightly

Hope that helps

 

[Maedze]

Not picking a fight in any way here , but are you saying that my current Compass seat won't tip if installed properly? That would be good news, but kind of hard to believe. The install is so simple I don't see how it could be wrong. After the first tipping incident my wife and I figured we had something messed up, as we had quickly put the car seat into car we were test driving, but we could not improve the performance.

I'm sorry, I could have been a lot more clear! When I said "car seat" I meant "harnessed seat", not a "belt positioning booster".

 

[demiro]

I'm sorry, I could have been a lot more clear! When I said "car seat" I meant "harnessed seat", not a "belt positioning booster".

OK, for further clarification, what makes a properly installed harness seat not tip? I realize that my Compass seat is very much a lightweight when compared to other options, but that won't make a world of difference I don't think.

 

[Maedze]

OK, for further clarification, what makes a properly installed harness seat not tip? I realize that my Compass seat is very much a lightweight when compared to other options, but that won't make a world of difference I don't think.

A booster seat simply rests on the vehicle seat. It is not attached to the vehicle seat.

A harnessed car seat is installed. It is secured to the vehicle seat by either seatbelt or the LATCH system. When the belt or LATCH webbing is properly tighened, the seat has less than an inch of movement in any direction. It can't physically tip over. If the car turns upside down, the car seat should be still in exactly the same position.

 

[demiro]

A booster seat simply rests on the vehicle seat. It is not attached to the vehicle seat.

A harnessed car seat is installed. It is secured to the vehicle seat by either seatblet or the LATCH system. When the belt or LATCH webbing is properly tighened, the seat has less than an inch of movement in any direction. It can't physically tip over. If the car turns upside down, the car seat should be still in exactly the same position.

Thank you. Sorry for being so dense about this. Now I understand. Seems like quite the no-brainer to go for a harnessed seat all of a sudden...

Now I just don't know what the heck we were thinking when we went to the Compass seat when we did. I swear we researched it. Oh well, do it right going forward and learn from mistakes. What else can you do?

Thanks very much to everyone who helped out here. I think I have a path forward. I will try to come back and confirm that everything is working and not tipping!

 

[Maedze]

Sounds good! :thumbsup:

After you choose the seat you want and install it, you should definitely see a CPST to evaluate you installation and child in the seat. You can also upload and post a picture here. If there are any visible installation errors or you are having difficulty, we can point them out and walk you through fixing the problem.

 

[scatterbunny]

You've gotten some great advice. :thumbsup: I just wanted to chime in and say, don't feel dense. Most folks do move kiddos to boosters (no harness) at 4 years old/40 pounds, because we're trained to think that's what's normal, it's what we're supposed to do. Unfortunately, the information just isn't out there, that kids need to be harnessed until they can sit still 100% of the time. People just don't know about seats that harness over 40 pounds, because a few years ago, there really weren't any that went above 40 pounds. Luckily, now, there's quite a few. The Nautilus is one of my favorites.

 

[demiro]

I'm thinking the Graco Nautilus makes the most sense. If anyone has any recommendations that would be great. I'm guessing we'll bump against max height restrictions way before weight, so any seats that allow you to use harness beyond 52 or 53" would be nice (if they exist).