Advocate crash test

[Cryssy Jane]

The dummy's head is flung so far forward in those videos that I highly doubt the headwings of an RXT would have made a difference in that particular test.

I agree. :-/

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org

 

[lovemybabies924]

i actually think the wings on the RXT would have helped..at least in my head they would have haha

 

[bnsnyde]

What about the Recaro Prosport? Does anything even have deeper headwings? Sorry if I just missed it, but is that seat up on those tests?

I'd be inclined to use it for all my FF outboard kids. But I want to see it in action.

(But actually my eldest is almost too tall for that harness). I don't feel the headwings of his Radian go out far enough, but it's what we have for now in the van. I also don't see that the Frontier85 has head wings that are deep enough to warrant that seat outboard. I'd be curious to see if the SICT helps with that.

So, I want a Prosport with 20 inch top slots, lol!!!!

(And, aren't side curtain airbags a moot point for kids in seats since kids are too short? Don't you have to be taller for them to work? So maybe some kids in boosters who are tall enough...but looking at my 6-year-old in his Radian...he is not near where I imagine those curtains come out, at all. So his head would hit the window, it looks like?)

And can't those who can't replace seats for whatever reason switch any seats to the middle (if at all possible)? Then the worry of heads slamming into the side or not being tall enough to get the air-bag benefits wouldn't be such an issue? Even though 2 and 2 is easier in my van, I like having kid #4 in back in the middle, and 3 across the middle row.

 

[desisue0131]

Did they test the MA70? I just bought one and was curious to see how it did.

 

[Stelvis]

Curious to see the Go Hybrid...

 

[TXDani]

These videos would not make me want to go out and replace my seats based on what I have seen but...I am secretly happy that all the seats I have look good in the videos.

I hope we find out more about these tests and more keep coming out.

 

[cjsmama]

Darn... Both my kids are outboard in radians. One is a rxt the other is a r120. The 4 year old FF 1/2 the time now... I can't put him in the middle because the two boys fight like crazy. But we have 2002 escape. Ugh what seat would be best on this basis? 42 inches, 38lbs...

 

[LISmama810]

Anyone panicking about these needs to take a deep breath.

Let's look at the Radian.

That video looked HORRIBLE. Awful, wasn't it? And yet sometimes a video can look horrible, and yet the dummies show low injuries.

Let's say that's not the case here. Let's say the dummy was injured. Badly. That sucks. It really does. But we can take solace in the fact that side-impacts are the least common type of crash.

The most common type of crash is frontal, in which Radians get fantastic head excursion numbers. So you could get a seat that seems to perform better in a side-impact, but does that mean reducing performance in a frontal?

Ideally you'd get something that performs (or seems to perform) well in both scenarios, but again, you will never know how any seat will perform in YOUR vehicle in whatever type of crash (if any) YOU sustain.

I understand the instinct to panic, but there are too many unknowns to be able to say with confidence that one seat is definitively "better" than another.

 

[MyTwoSons]

I'm kind surprised by how far the seats go side to side when hit. Do they always install them tight enough during these test? I hope that's not a stupid question, but I've never watched the dummy test before,and It just kind of stood out to me.
Kelley

I would like to piggy-back on this question. Although I think the answer to PP pondering is that the movement helps ride down the crash forces and thus is a good thing to some extent, is that right? Someone with more knowledge please jump in and correct though if that's wrong.

My add on question though, is what is the impact on safety (whether good, bad or indifferent) when seats are installed tight side by side or even in a 3-across? Does that hamper the movement? Are there issues with children impacting the seats next to them? After watching the movement in these videos, I know I am now wondering about my ff-er being hit with the rf seat right next to his.

Anyone have thoughts on this? Is it an issue or just something I'm being paranoid about?

 

[creideamh]

Building on the side airbags thing... should one assume that once a kiddo 5 steps, his/her head is protected by the airbags? And like others asked, what about kids in boosters? At what point are you protected by side curtain airbags?? What about high, upright RF seats (ala ProRide, Foonf) with bigger kids (3, 4)?
Guess I'm just wondering how low the airbags go...

I'm not really surprised by any of these. Glad some kind of testing is going on, though.

 

[finn]

What about high, upright RF seats (ala ProRide, Foonf) with bigger kids (3, 4)?

Here is the Britax Multi Tech, the last video is a rf side impact with a Q6 dummy.

http://www.autoliitto.fi/tietopankk...sia/turvaistuintestit/britax_multi-tech_2009/

 

[gigi]

I am pretty stunned that the Coccoro looked better than the Frontier. Like seriously amazed. I am happy my little one is RF in the CCO outboard. I was planning to get a Frontier for my 5 y.o., but this test gave me pause because my kid is not giant (44", 46 lbs of solid muscle, 16" torso) but has a giant head I would like contained. It seems to me the ones that hug the kid with less extra internal space do better and the F85 is sooo wide. Maybe I'll go F85SICT hoping the pillows help, maybe I'll get a SK400, maybe I'll get the baby an Advocate and have my big one ride in it for 6 months before he is boostered. Or, maybe I'll get a Nautilus or pro sport, although I've never really considered either for various reasons.

 

[Stelvis]

I am pretty stunned that the Coccoro looked better than the Frontier. Like seriously amazed. I am happy my little one is RF in the CCO outboard. I was planning to get a Frontier for my 5 y.o., but this test gave me pause because my kid is not giant (44", 46 lbs of solid muscle, 16" torso) but has a giant head I would like contained. It seems to me the ones that hug the kid with less extra internal space do better and the F85 is sooo wide. Maybe I'll go F85SICT hoping the pillows help, maybe I'll get a SK400, maybe I'll get the baby an Advocate and have my big one ride in it for 6 months before he is boostered. Or, maybe I'll get a Nautilus or pro sport, although I've never really considered either for various reasons.

The Frontier shown is the old model, not the FN85, just to be clear.

 

[gsdguenter]

Here is the Britax Multi Tech, the last video is a rf side impact with a Q6 dummy.

http://www.autoliitto.fi/tietopankk...sia/turvaistuintestit/britax_multi-tech_2009/

It looks to perform well rfing, but not that great ff or as a bpb with the older dummies.

 

[Pixels]

Anyone have thoughts on this? Is it an issue or just something I'm being paranoid about?

The movement you see in the videos is normal for tightly installed seats. Crashes are incredibly violent things, with incredible amounts of energy and tons of movement.

As far as the three across scenario, I don't think it much matters if the three across is tight with seats touching or pressing on each other or if there's two inches of space between each o the seats. You see how much the seats move; they are all going to move and press on each other in a crash like that.

Side by side seats will certainly have a different crash dynamic than a solitary seat. I don't know if children in adjacent seats would fare better, worse, or one better and one worse. It's something I can see going either way, really. I am not aware of any research whatsoever on the subject, so I have no opinion. I arrange kids in the vehicle based on all the other factors: where seats fit, least protected child in the most protected position, and parental preference.

 

[Pixels]

Building on the side airbags thing... should one assume that once a kiddo 5 steps, his/her head is protected by the airbags? And like others asked, what about kids in boosters? At what point are you protected by side curtain airbags?? What about high, upright RF seats (ala ProRide, Foonf) with bigger kids (3, 4)?
Guess I'm just wondering how low the airbags go...

I'm not really surprised by any of these. Glad some kind of testing is going on, though.

In most modern vehicles, the side curtain airbags extend to the bottom of the window frame. Some older vehicles had curtain airbags that only extended as far as necessary to protect the adult dummy's head.

If you're wondering about it for your vehicle or one you are considering purchasing, you can see them in the promotional photos put out by the manufacturers, and usually you can find videos on YouTube.

For the higher/taller rear facers, certainly they sit high enough for airbag protection in at least some scenarios. Keep in mind the amount of motion we are seeing in these videos, and the tendency for rear facing seats to roll over on their sides partially as they move towered the point of impact. That rotation will lower the child's head.

Kids in boosters will be less protected than kids in harnesses because of the lack of harness. If you watch vehicle testing videos, you will see that the three point belt does little to contain the upper torso. There was a study that showed even the chest clip being properly placed can reduce lateral motion of the dummy by two inches, making the difference between a head strike on the door or not.

 

[bnsnyde]

Since there are no other harnessed options that fit, guess I'll just go with the Frontier for outboard 6-year-old, soon.

I like the Prosport's depth but we'd be looking at booster mode fairly quickly, and I think I prefer the 5 pt. harness for now. It's still his seat in our spare car and we probably have a few months left harnessed in it. I wish they made that seat a little taller in booster mode!

And I wish they'd get side testing up of the Prosport and the Frontier85, and SICT versions.

 

[InternationalMama]

For me, these videos have really driven home that I want my FF DS in the middle seat if possible.

 

[Kecia]

Adding to Pixels comments regarding side curtain ABs -

Unfortunately, unless your child is seated forward-facing and is at least as tall (seated in their CR) as the 5th percentile female dummy there are no guarantees that the curtain will provide any protective benefit. According to the external dimensions listed here: http://www.humaneticsatd.com/crash-test-dummies/frontal-impact/hybrid-iii-5th
her total sitting/seated height is 31".

There are many different curtain designs. Some extend all the way down the window. Others do not. Some have air-filled chambers that cover larger surface areas. Others only have air-filled chambers in the area where they expect an adult head will make contact. In short - there are many, many variables.

You can usually look at SI crash test videos and pics on the IIHS vehicle evals of your vehicle (where the 5th%ile female is seated in the back seat) and get a ballpark idea as to whether or not the SAB in your vehicle will offer your child any additional protection (above and beyond the protection offered by the CR) in this type of crash.

Just to highlight some of the different designs:

 

[finn]

It looks to perform well rfing, but not that great ff or as a bpb with the older dummies.

Yeah thats what I thought too, I don't know anyone who has one, who ever plans on using it ff though and too me it seems way too heavy for a booster!