65-lb LATCH limit

[LISmama810]

confused
I have a ford 2003 latch limit is 48lbs kids weight so with the new latch limits will it be 48lbs total kids weight and the car seat weight? I plan on getting a truefit for the convertible. The weight of the truefit says 19 lbs on the website so that means I can only use Latch in my Ford cars until the child is 29lbs?

And will this be on Boosters with latch as well?
I have a Compass one that is the new one with latch and also the GN I use in booster mode with latch DD is 63 lbs so should I not being using the latch for the boosters.
The only reason I use the latch is that it helps stabilize the seat so dd can get in the truck on her own with out slipping and falling.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, vehicle weight limits go out the window. You would disregard Ford's 48-lb limit of just the child. The new weight limit will be 65 lbs combined. If a True Fit weighs 19 lbs, you could LATCH until 45...and so could the owner of a vehicle that previously had a 40-lb limit (Of course, I imagine a car seat manufacturer could set a LOWER limit, just not a higher one.)

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think I'm going to be recommending a seat belt install whenever possible. I already do that for my personal seats.

I rarely use LATCH either, in large part because the limits are often arbitrary and make me distrustful. I'm actually more trusting of it now.

I don't see any need to recommend a seatbelt install across the board.

 

[Pixels]

No, it's all cars across the board. In essence, this is happening now in seats older than 2005. 25-lb seats holding 40-lb kids. Actually, you have seats far exceeding that, as I pointed out in my Regent example. That seat is at least 30 lbs, right? So you have a 70-lb total weight, which is allowed in a 2004 Honda, according to Honda, since it's only the kid's weight they supposedly care about.

The Regent is in the 20 pound neighborhood, but the Graco SmartSeat with base is over 33 pounds.

 

[LISmama810]

Your vehicle weight limit remains unchanged.

Oh. So I was misunderstanding. I thought this standardized everything. I thought we'd be able to look at a seat and say, "Yep, you can use this to 43 lbs." You're saying we still have to check the (unpublished and often inconsistent) weight limits of the vehicle manufacturer, too?

So, in my Honda, I can only LATCH a 2-years-from-now TrueFit for a total of 59 lbs, but I can LATCH a this-year-foonf to 40 lbs for a total of 71?

In that case, no, I don't like it because it doesn't remove the arbitrary limit that includes only half the equation (child weight, not total weight), which is where much of my distrust comes from.

 

[Lemonade]

I prefer latch to the point where I would change a seat so I could still use latch. Example, the FR85 (19 lbs) replaced a radian XTSL (23-25lbs) in DH's car partially so I could still use latch -- DS weighs 37-38ish lbs clothed and DH drives a 2003 Subaru. So, 37 + 19 = 56 and is less than 60# I don't have to worry about it accidently getting unbuckled since I am hardly ever in DH's car and I'm not confident DH would notice. Unfortunately my relatively chunky DD (relative to a 3rd%ile weight child) is now only 3 lbs behind DS so I'll have this issue sooner with her.


But moreover I think this is only going to be a problem that *we* car seat junkies have. The vast majority of kids out there are still moved to booster seats by the time they are around 40 lbs IME. And since most *regular* people are not buying the heaviest seats (radian at 25, older FRs at 23ish), their seats would likely be under 20 lbs so it's not going to be an issue unless you've got kids over 45 lbs harnessed. According to the CDC growth charts, the average boy hits 40# just before turning 5yrs. *In general* I think someone that takes the time to order a radian or buy one is slightly more likely to have done some research vs the average consumer. And goodness, I had no idea the smart seat was 33#...but it's so $$ that again it's probably got a fairly limited market.

 

[Syllieann]

I'm glad it's going to a total weight instead of child's weight because that was pretty stupid in the first place. However, I would have much preferred to see them just rate the anchors to a higher limit. Based on skjp's statements, I have a sneaking suspicion that they could pass at 105# total weight, which would then allow the vast majority of seats to be used to their full capacity w/ latch as long as the cr mfg followed suit. I think it's always beneficial to have 2 installation options to reduce vehicle incompatibilities or if you are needing a grandparent to install a seat or something of that nature. It also makes me uneasy that a cr may or may not have been tested w/ l/s belt so I prefer latch.

 

[glockchick]

I rarely use LATCH either, in large part because the limits are often arbitrary and make me distrustful. I'm actually more trusting of it now.

I don't see any need to recommend a seatbelt install across the board.

I agree. I was being a bit of a smart a$$. I use the seat belt with my seats because one vehicle doesn't have latch and I don't like undoing and reattaching the LATCH belts. Yep, I'm lazy. I also don't have to worry about when to switch from LATCH to seat belt install.

I will still inform parents of all the options, of my personal preferences only if they ask me, and then help them with whatever they choose.

 

[Cath3114]

Has there ever been a documented case of LATCH failing because of a too heavy load?

 

[JerseyGirl'sMama]

I think my brain is malfunctioning because I don't understand - at all.

 

[Pixels]

I think my brain is malfunctioning because I don't understand - at all.

NHTSA has issued a new rule that will be incorporated into FMVSS 213, the standard for child restraints. It goes into effect two years from now.

Part of that new rule is that the child restraint must be clearly labeled not to use it with lower anchors when the child is over X weight. That X weight, plus the weight of the restraint, must not be more than 65 pounds. So for a 15 pound seat, it would say not to use lower anchors when the child is over 50 pounds (65-15=50). For a 30 pound seat, it would say not to use lower anchors when the child is over 35 pounds (65-30=35).

Does that help?

 

[LISmama810]

Pixels, what I don't understand is how this relates to existing vehicle weight limits. From what I understood this morning, the idea of having "don't use above x lbs" (for a child + seat weight of 65 lbs) is to eliminate confusion over differing weight limits and to help ensure that consumers don't exceed those limits. I read the document, and it seemed to agree with the assertation that the 40- or 48-lb limits currently in place are a bit arbitrary and outdated given the number of HWH seats now available.

My understanding (and the implication, though not outright statement in the document) is that the child restraint manufacturer, not the vehicle manufacturer, will set the LATCH limit, still staying within the regulatory requirement of 65 lbs.

So, in other words, if a 20-lb seat has a child limit of 45 lbs (65 lbs total), it would be fine to use that in a car with a 40-lb limit.

But a previous post of yours said we still need to abide by the vehicle manufacturer limits.

I do realize we need to follow all instructions, so if there's actually a 40-lb limit stated in the manual, we can't really ignore that. At the same time, it doesn't make sense.

26-lb seat + 39-lb child = 65 lbs.
24-lb seat + 41-lb. child = 65 lbs.

The first scenario is allowed by Honda. The second is not.

Which brings up two other questions:

Based on these revisions, will vehicle manufacturers all change their stances to defer to the seat?

What 40-lb-limit manufacturers actually state the limit in their manuals?

 

[lourdes]

Will this change the Super Latch limits?

 

[LISmama810]

Will this change the Super Latch limits?

I think it would have to.

 

[Pixels]

This new standard applies specifically to the child restraints. It's part of FMVSS 213, which is the standard for child restraints and doesn't have anything to do with the vehicle end of LATCH.

I do believe that this new standard will allow more vehicle manufacturers to comfortably defer to the child restraint, though that will take 12 years to come to fruition. Two years before this rule goes into effect, and ten more years before all seats existing before this rule expire.

Will this change the Super Latch limits?

Absolutely. SuperLATCH was actually the catalyst for this tidbit of legislation. They said it was fine to use with an 80 pound child and 23 pound seat, and a lot of people said whoa! That's a lot of weight on the anchors. Before that, I think the highest anyone said was okay was 48 pound child plus 20-ish pound seat.

 

[Jessica61624]

Pixels, what I don't understand is how this relates to existing vehicle weight limits. From what I understood this morning, the idea of having "don't use above x lbs" (for a child + seat weight of 65 lbs) is to eliminate confusion over differing weight limits and to help ensure that consumers don't exceed those limits. I read the document, and it seemed to agree with the assertation that the 40- or 48-lb limits currently in place are a bit arbitrary and outdated given the number of HWH seats now available.

My understanding (and the implication, though not outright statement in the document) is that the child restraint manufacturer, not the vehicle manufacturer, will set the LATCH limit, still staying within the regulatory requirement of 65 lbs.

So, in other words, if a 20-lb seat has a child limit of 45 lbs (65 lbs total), it would be fine to use that in a car with a 40-lb limit.

But a previous post of yours said we still need to abide by the vehicle manufacturer limits.

I do realize we need to follow all instructions, so if there's actually a 40-lb limit stated in the manual, we can't really ignore that. At the same time, it doesn't make sense.

26-lb seat + 39-lb child = 65 lbs.
24-lb seat + 41-lb. child = 65 lbs.

The first scenario is allowed by Honda. The second is not.

Which brings up two other questions:

Based on these revisions, will vehicle manufacturers all change their stances to defer to the seat?

What 40-lb-limit manufacturers actually state the limit in their manuals?

This is exactly what I'm confused about!

 

[Jessica61624]

This new standard applies specifically to the child restraints. It's part of FMVSS 213, which is the standard for child restraints and doesn't have anything to do with the vehicle end of LATCH.

I do believe that this new standard will allow more vehicle manufacturers to comfortably defer to the child restraint, though that will take 12 years to come to fruition. Two years before this rule goes into effect, and ten more years before all seats existing before this rule expire.

Absolutely. SuperLATCH was actually the catalyst for this tidbit of legislation. They said it was fine to use with an 80 pound child and 23 pound seat, and a lot of people said whoa! That's a lot of weight on the anchors. Before that, I think the highest anyone said was okay was 48 pound child plus 20-ish pound seat.

So we will have to wait and see what happens with car manufactures.