Question about the crash videos

Splash · Jan 6, 2007

I watched them last night, the clip they showed on the news. I slowed it down and much as possible and watched it ten times.

On the Discovery, they have a belt going OVER the seat, through the SEAT'S belt path, but I could not see a belt on the base. I looked several times, but I just could not make out the seatbelt on the base. However it very much looked like the seatbelt was going OVER the seat, even while it was on the base. What gives? This is the only seat that looked like that, but I swear it did not appear that they had the base buckled in, only the seat, while ON the base.

The SS1 jerked so far to the side that I do not even see how it is possible. Unless the anchor strap loosened, but no way the straps could stretch that much. If that seat was installed correctly, the strap would have had to loosen. If that's the case, I'm all for using it with the belt.

The Companion looked like it did great! Rebounded, didn't hit the back of the seat, and came back down. Funny how CR didn't mention that this seat had it's own built in airbags and the baby's head would have landed on something inflatable!

I couldn't make out what the other seat was, but it didn't look too bad. The dummy stayed within the seat, and the seat rotated away from the point of impact.

My question though, is what is this belt on the Discovery? It's not on any of the other seats. And can ANYONE see a belt on the base? Because I sure can't.

mominabigtruck · Jan 6, 2007

What I want to know is if they are testing the discovery or the embrace? They say they are testing the discovery but then they show pictures of the embrace. I agree with you splash, it didn't look like to me that they were installed correctly. I know they say that its the same as in real life because people don't install their seats correctly but I fail to see how its the carseats companies fault that people aren't reading their manual.

SPJ&E · Jan 6, 2007

I was thinking the same thing, Splash...about the Evenflo seat. I didn't see the belt going through the base either...only over the infant seat itself (and my partner said the same thing). I also agree that if the SS1 was installed correctly, it shouldn't have moved THAT much unless something loosened. And I also agree that the Companion looked fine. You can't expect NO movement...unless it's got a rear-facing tether, it's going to move and it's not going to be pretty.

SPJ&E · Jan 6, 2007

mominabigtruck said:
I know they say that its the same as in real life because people don't install their seats correctly but I fail to see how its the carseats companies fault that people aren't reading their manual.

And ditto to that! It's not fair to go attacking the companies when the consumers are the ones you act like they can't be bothered with reading the manual to install the seats correctly.

Jeanum · Jan 6, 2007

I've wondered about whether that was the seatbelt or a sensor of some sort showing in the video of the Discovery. My first thought was seatbelt, but upon watching it multiple times, I think it may be a sensor, like some of the extraneous straps we see in other crash test footage from other sources. I also don't see much sign of the Discovery base being installed in the video footage though, it's downright leaping sideways off the test sled.

I also agree it's odd the still photos CR shows supposedly of the Discovery don't seem to match the Discovery crash video. Weird, weird, weird.

Kellyr2 · Jan 6, 2007

Is t here a link anywhere to these specific video's? I'm so torn now on the SS after hearing what Graco is recommending, but I'd like to see the video of it for myself.

granolamama · Jan 6, 2007

Splash said:
The Companion looked like it did great! Rebounded, didn't hit the back of the seat, and came back down. Funny how CR didn't mention that this seat had it's own built in airbags and the baby's head would have landed on something inflatable!

Do you mean the child restraint has airbags, or the seat of the car has airbags? Does the Companion really have airbags in it?? How does that work?

skaterbabs · Jan 6, 2007

The Companion has an infalatable head support that is required to be used at all times. So basically the baby will rebound onto an air pillow.

That said, remember that in severe crashes the LATCH or seatbelts will stretch a LOT- I think that may be some of what we're seeing. However, those seats are NOT properly installed anyway.

Splash · Jan 6, 2007

Does anyone know if they replace the belts or the anchors after each crash test? Seems like it would be awfully time consuming to do so, and i know they do these tests one after another.

skaterbabs · Jan 7, 2007

I could not say for certain, but my uninformed opinion is...probably NOT.

Lea_Ontario · Jan 7, 2007

skaterbabscpst said:
However, those seats are NOT properly installed anyway.

Do we know that for sure ?

LuvBug · Jan 7, 2007

Im still trying to decide which discovery was really the discovery lol!
Ive never seen any IRL, but I can tell just by looking they have 2 seats coming off the base labled as the discovery, but they are clearly different.
Im going to target just to look at the evenflo seats, Im very curious about this.

stayinhomewithmy6 · Jan 7, 2007

I have been thinking these same exact things. I have watched the videos a couple times, and thought it sure does look like a seatbelt is going over the Discovery, but I also assumed it was some kind of sensor strap like the ones that are always flying around in crash tests. And I also thought that the Companion rebounded alot, which I was a little surprised by because it has the anti-rebound bar, but other than that, it looked fine. Thats a good question about whether the belts are replaced after each seat. And, how do for sure that the seats weren't properly installed?

Splash · Jan 7, 2007

Basic laws of physics should tell us the seats weren't installed tightly enough. Basically it's just not possible for the strap to more than triple in length without breaking, and yet with the movement they showed in those seats, the straps would have had to stretch 12 inches or more if they were installed tightly.
Plus, look at the seats they're on. They're not any vehicle seat I have ever seen. It looks like a foam mattress. No vehicle seat has that much give. And with the Companion's rebond bar- in a vehicle it is rebounding into a relatively firm seat. In that test, it was rebounding into a pillow. The pillow is going to give way more than a vehicle seat would. And the rebound bar is still meant to let it rebound a bit, it flexes. It's not a solid metal bar or anything, it's made to flex with the seat. So some rebound is to be expected.

stayinhomewithmy6 · Jan 7, 2007

Splash said:
Plus, look at the seats they're on. They're not any vehicle seat I have ever seen. It looks like a foam mattress. No vehicle seat has that much give. And with the Companion's rebond bar- in a vehicle it is rebounding into a relatively firm seat. In that test, it was rebounding into a pillow. The pillow is going to give way more than a vehicle seat would. And the rebound bar is still meant to let it rebound a bit, it flexes. It's not a solid metal bar or anything, it's made to flex with the seat. So some rebound is to be expected.

I thought that about the seat too! It looked to me maybe like a seat from a REALLY old car or something, but not like anything I've seen on any cars in the last 15 years at least! It really does look too squishy - like they made it out of the foam you can buy at craft stores.

skaterbabs · Jan 7, 2007

Actually, in severe crashes (over 30 mph) the harnes, seatbelt & LATCH webbing CAN stretch up to 12 inches.
But that said, after having watched a bunch of official crash test videos, while I can't say for 100% certain the seats were misinstalled, I strongly suspect that is the case here. Properly installed seats just move DIFFERENTLY in a crash. It's hard to explain. The amount of movement is very similar, but *how* it moves is different.

Also, the force CR crashes the seats with would be considered "catostrophic". Even the Companion would rebound a little with that amount of force. (Remember, crash forces are more than the speed with which the vehicles crashes.) So the seat (I don't recall the exact weight, let's say 15 lbs w/base for arguements' sake) + the 22 lb dummy at 30mph (the gov't standard) hits the seatbelt or LATCH webbing at 1110 lbs of force.
Does that make sense? I'm having a hard time expressing myself at the moment.

CrabbyBunchX3 · Jan 7, 2007

does anyone have links handy to the videos?
I missed all the news reports and want to see the same videos that are being discussed here.
TIA

twokidstwodogs · Jan 8, 2007

Splash said:
On the Discovery, they have a belt going OVER the seat, through the SEAT'S belt path, but I could not see a belt on the base. I looked several times, but I just could not make out the seatbelt on the base. However it very much looked like the seatbelt was going OVER the seat, even while it was on the base. What gives? This is the only seat that looked like that, but I swear it did not appear that they had the base buckled in, only the seat, while ON the base.

My question though, is what is this belt on the Discovery? It's not on any of the other seats. And can ANYONE see a belt on the base? Because I sure can't.

I finally got around to watching the darned videos! I'm wondering whether that strap that appears to go over the carseat is actually some sort of measuring device, and not a seatbelt strap. Maybe it measure the forces being applied to the dummy or the seat? If it's actually the belt strap, that would indeed be a crazily bad installation, but surely the CR people aren't that idiotic. Maybe the base is installed with LATCH during that test and so the anchors and straps aren't visible?

More reason for them to release their methodologies! I feel bad for the techs trying to interpret this for people coming in for seat checks.

[Edited to add: I just noticed that Jeanum already said this. Sorry!]

twokidstwodogs · Jan 8, 2007

Splash said:
Does anyone know if they replace the belts or the anchors after each crash test? Seems like it would be awfully time consuming to do so, and i know they do these tests one after another.

Ooh, good question! Perhaps you should write in and ask, though something tells me you won't get an answer.....

Michi · Jan 8, 2007

_Jessica_ said:
does anyone have links handy to the videos?
I missed all the news reports and want to see the same videos that are being discussed here.
TIA

The ones I saw were from the ABC news clip - you can clip "watch video" on this link...
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Consumer/story?id=2773035

I'm not sure if there is a direct link somewhere???

Question about the crash videos

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