Question about why Consumer Reports is bad....

gobsmacked

New member
This is a question from someone on another board I post on. She isn't registered here so I told her I'd post her question for her.

I'm wondering, though... if CR is using and installing seats closer to the way that the normal, every-day consumer uses their seats (read: not quite correctly) and if that's the case, it's still pretty scary information. After all, the only variables are how the seats are installed and how the child is strapped into the seat. What else could anyone need to know about "how they do their testing" -- it's not like they're hitting the cars with flying saucers.

I don't get it.

Can anyone answer this?

Thanks.
 
ADS

jen_nah

CPST Instructor
Per their article they say they have "trained car seat installers" but I can't say for sure its a CPS tech.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
I had some correspondence with the editor responsible for the Car Seat reviews in 2005. I was assured that they had at least a few certified technicians on staff. I was unable to get much more information about their methodology. I think our moderators Kecia and griffinmom have been to some presenatations by CR staffers and may have some more insight. Hopefully they can comment.

CR isn't necessarily bad. It's just that there are so many unknowns that it's hard to know which results are good and which are bad. I'm a long time subscriber and I think there is a lot of good information that comes from their reviews, but there's also been a lot of very questionable information, too.

Also, this might help answer some questions from parents:

http://www.car-safety.org/guide.html#cr
 

flipper68

Senior Community Member
here's why CR is questioned:

JPMA Responds to Consumer Reports' Testing of Infant Car Seats

January 4, 2007

The Juvenile Products Manufacturers Association (JPMA), which represents
the
leading manufacturers of infant child restraints in the United States,
questions the forthcoming findings of Consumer Reports magazine about the
performance of infant child restraints in recent crash tests. In the real
world, no product is more effective at reducing fatalities and injuries to
our precious children.

"Child restraints are highly effective safety devices that have saved
thousands of children's lives in car crashes," said Robert Waller, JPMA
President. "Their use is required throughout the nation, because they are
so
effective at reducing injury to children. It is irresponsible to suggest
that infant child restraints may not perform well in crashes."

Moreover, the crash test results and protocols have not previously been
shared with the industry or government for proper evaluation. The
scientific
validity of Consumer Reports' conclusions is highly questionable. Most
infants and toddlers under 4 years of age are being transported in vehicles
with child restraint seats. Research has proven time and again that these
seats are highly effective at reducing the likelihood of death by more than
70%. These seats are considerably more effective than adult safety belts.
The bigger issue affecting the potential for injury or death is non-use of
such seats. Too many infants and especially older children ride
unrestrained
in motor vehicles.

All child restraints sold in the United States are required to satisfy the
rigorous performance standards established by the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration (NHTSA), and are certified by their manufacturers as
compliant before they can be offered for sale. Manufacturers extensively
test their child restraints, using both in-house and independent test
laboratories, both for the purpose of assuring compliance before marketing
the products and to confirm continuing compliance during production. The
Government also independently tests child restraints every year to ensure
compliance with its standards.

NHTSA has determined that "child restraints are highly effective in
reducing
the likelihood of death and or serious injury in motor vehicle crashes." 68
Fed.Reg. 37620, 37622 (June 24, 2003). NHTSA studies show that for infants
(children less than one year old), a child restraint can reduce the risk of
fatality by 71 percent when used in a passenger car and by 58 percent when
used in a light truck, van or SUV. 68 Fed.Reg. at 37622.

IMO your results should be taken with a grain of salt if you aren't willing to share how you got them.

I'm not saying the standards are the end all or be all, but we CAN duplicate those results.

Darren - I apologize if this is a dup. I just received this via email and didn't read your link.
 

twokidstwodogs

New member
I absolutely agree that CR should share its protocols.

But the JPMA isn't really addressing the issue. CR wasn't claiming that carseats don't save lives, nor were they saying that (except for the Evenflo Discovery), the seats fail to meet federal standards. They are claiming (rightly or wrongly) that federal standards aren't adequate to prove crashworthiness. That JPMA response totally sidesteps that question.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
The JPMA response really was a non-response. Any response that cites meeting or exceeding federal standards is deceptive, since the standards for child restraints don't even apply to side impact crashes.
 

emandbri

Well-known member
In the past consumer reports hasn't done a very good job when it comes to car seats, so bad in fact that I've stopped looking to them for info when I'm buying anything.

For years the "top rated" convertible was the century 1000. Even after it and the 2000 (t-shield), and 3000 (shield seat) were the only ones left going to 22 lbs rear-facing when the others went to 30 they still rated them "top pick." They also had really short top harness slots and the seat belt went over the seat when the seat was rear-facing which was a total pain. The top rated combo seat was the century breverra. Some of you may not have had the pleasure of having to deal with this seat but it was almost impossible to install in any vehicle. It also didn't have a front adjuster for the harness.

They would also rate shield seats higher then 5-points which is just crazy.
 
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SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
I was burned by the highly rated Cosco High Back Booster combination seat. Low top harness slots and extremely twisty straps. It was one of the least favorite seats I've owned.
 

Jeanum

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Staff member
I avoided being burned by CR on carseats, but did a pretty decent job of getting burned all on my own with DD1's earlier carseats, before I found boards like this one.

I usually have to bite my tongue when I see comments about how it's okay to consult CR for appliances but to take their carseat advice with a grain of salt, lol. After being burned twice by CR's vacuum advice, :mad: I can't bring myself to trust their appliance advice ever again.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
I don't usually use CR for information on what to buy. I'm never sure if their preferences equal mine for any item so I have no idea if their recommendations are reasonable or not. On the other hand, I do find out a lot from their product reviews and often avoid items that get very poor ratings or have specific warnings. That way, if I get burned by a highly rated item, it's at least partially my fault.
 

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