Question WWYD?? Extended harness for 9 year olds?

Sum1Else · Sep 1, 2009

I'd like to see what others would do in this situation.

The children
My twins are 9 as of a month ago. They weigh between 47 - 51lb depending on the day. They have no health issues. They are about 48" tall. (And before everyone asks... they were not preemies!)
The twingle is almost 6 (November) and weighs about 47 lb and is about 45" tall. (Yes, people think they are triplets quite often.)

The Car Seats
They currently ride in Graco Nautilus and are in the 2nd highest harness slot just getting ready to move to the top in the next few months.

The Vehicle
I acually have 3 GNs in my Saturn Relay. Currently they are positioned like this...

1 in 2nd row behind driver in bucket seat
2 in 3rd row outboard positions on bench seat

The only tether in the 3rd row is the middle seating position. Both buckets are tether positions. All are installed with vehicle seatbelts because they switch out which seat they sit in. Only the one is tethered in the 2nd row. (It is too difficult to get everyone in and out of the vehicle with 2 in the 2nd row seats!)

---------------------------------------

So, the real question I am asking is... the 9 year olds and extended harnessing. I plan to keep them in the GNs as long as possible by height or weight. But... What would YOU do? And why?

carseatcoach · Sep 1, 2009

There is nothing wrong with harnessing 9yos, but it's not necessary either. Assuming they could use boosters properly, I'd let them choose between harness and HBBs.

joolsplus3 · Sep 1, 2009

The sooner you unharness them, the sooner you will be reminding them to sit back in their seats

Either way is fine, harnessed or un, so do what works best, IMO. My 11 yo wishes he could still be harnessed, was very sad when we got rid of his Husky (Regent) when he was ten... but he sits pretty well in a booster as long as he's not leaning over to hand something to his sisters or look at their Nintendos or whatever. Same with the 9 yo.

LISmama810 · Sep 1, 2009

At 48 inches, do they still fit in the Nautilus by height? If their shoulders are over the top harness position the seats are outgrown, regardless of weight. (They might still fit, but take a look to make sure.)

Qarin · Sep 1, 2009

I would take their desires into consideration, I think.

My oldest DD will be 8 in November, is 46" tall, 47lbs (her younger sister is exactly three years younger, 42.5" tall, 40lbs; not quite as close as your three in size, but similar)- she loves her Nautilus and does not want to switch to a booster seat so there she stays. She fully intends to outgrow its harness and switch to using it as a booster (I have different plans, since I'd prefer a lighter weight booster and to pass the Nautilus to her sister. But if she really uses it until she outgrows the harness, her sister will be more than ready for a fulltime booster, anyway- indeed, her sister might have by then outgrown her Wizard and moved to a booster!).

So, anyway, I feel that harnessing is very safe, and that safely use booster seats are also very safe, so at the point where a booster seat will be safely used (proper sized child who will be aware of belt position and not mess with it or move around too much) I feel it becomes the user's choice (that is, the child's choice).

Maedze · Sep 1, 2009

Given the nine year olds' ages, I would be perfectly comfortable moving them to boosters, even backless boosters. I would take their feelings on the matter into account.

The six year old I would be comfortable with in either the Nautilus or a good high backed booster.

thepeach80 · Sep 1, 2009

If they still fit, that's cool and I'd have them be harnessed if they were o.k. w/ that. If I needed to buy a new seat, I'd get a booster. My 6yo is about the same size as your kids and he has about 1/2" left in his GN, then he's getting an Oobr in Feb.

NannyMom · Sep 1, 2009

Re: WWYD?? Extended harness for 9 year olds?

I have a 9 year old. She's 55ish pounds and 54 inches (but has a short torso). She rides in a high back booster. She sometimes wishes she could be in a harness, and I used to let her ride in her brother's Nautilus on occasion. She also wishes she could be rearfacing though, lol. She is an excellent booster rider.

I would let them choose, booster or harness. For all 3 of your kids now it's about maturity to sit properly. The 9 year old should be able to just fine. The 6 year old may or may not be able to.

Splash · Sep 1, 2009

Re: WWYD?? Extended harness for 9 year olds?

I would not harness any child that age without a tether, no way no how. If you had them all tethered, I would still lean to boostering the older ones. But if even one child has to be without a tether, it's not worth it to me, I'd get them out of the seats.

An Aurora · Sep 1, 2009

Re: WWYD?? Extended harness for 9 year olds?

Splash said:
I would not harness any child that age without a tether, no way no how. If you had them all tethered, I would still lean to boostering the older ones. But if even one child has to be without a tether, it's not worth it to me, I'd get them out of the seats.

I don't think age makes them unsafe. A 47 pound, 48" four year old isn't at risk with no tether, so why would a 9 year old? Granted, I would tether if at all possible no matter what age.

Lea_Ontario · Sep 1, 2009

They are the same height and weight as my Boo.

I'd keep them in the Nautilus' if they are comfortable being in a harnessed seat (though I would definitely tether the seats).

But I do question them being under the second-from-top slots. Boo's shoulder is only about a 1/2 inch below the TOP slot. Are they both super-leggy / short-torso kids ?

I would also be comfortable with a 9-yr old in a booster, barring any special considerations for that particular child.

amyd · Sep 1, 2009

Re: WWYD?? Extended harness for 9 year olds?

Splash said:
I would not harness any child that age without a tether, no way no how. If you had them all tethered, I would still lean to boostering the older ones. But if even one child has to be without a tether, it's not worth it to me, I'd get them out of the seats.

I wouldn't either, but I wouldn't harness any child FFing without a tether.:twocents:

Splash · Sep 1, 2009

Re: WWYD?? Extended harness for 9 year olds?

An Aurora said:
I don't think age makes them unsafe. A 47 pound, 48" four year old isn't at risk with no tether, so why would a 9 year old? Granted, I would tether if at all possible no matter what age.

I wouldn't have a 47 pound 4 year old in a non-tethered harnessed seat either. I would not have a FF child without a tether barring extremely odd circumstances.

Their age makes harnessing non-essential. It could be argued that most 4 year olds still need a harness, but no neurotypical 9 year old needs to be in a harness. Therefore, it certainly would in no way be worth it to me to have the child in a non-tethered harness.

Sum1Else · Sep 2, 2009

I appreciate everyone's comments. Here is some more information.

I double checked the twins height today. I was going on what I remember from the last time I measured them. They are 48" and it appears that their seated buttocks to shoulder is about 15.5 - 16". GN max harness height is 18", if I remember correctly.

I've been an active tech since 2003 and I understand the importance of tethering. I had moved their seats to utilize the tether anchors as they are installed in the vehicle. It made getting in and out of the vehicle very difficult for them if the 2nd row seats were both being used. Also, there are occasions that I have to transport additional people and it is difficult to fit adults on either side of a GN in the back seat of the vehicle. I don't mind moving the seats... except the tether on the buckets is difficult to attach and unattach, even for me, at times.

I haven't checked the LATCH manual to see if additional outboard tether anchors can be added. That is another step. However, expense and installation may be an issue. (Real world, ya know.) I will also measure, as best as I can, the amount of room for head excursion in the seats.

What I think is interesting is that several have mentioned that it is fine for a 9 year old at this weight to be in a booster or to have a choice. What if the same weight child was a 4 year old?

Not trying to incite an argument here. Just trying to see reasoning.

Lea_Ontario · Sep 2, 2009

Sum1Else said:
What if the same weight child was a 4 year old?

A 4-year old, even if they were the same height and weight as your 9-yr olds, doesn't have the maturity or impluse control that makes riding in a booster safe for a typical 9-yr old.

At 4, many children are still bouncy, still eager to move their bodies around to see EVERYTHING, and the concept of being inured by being out of position is too abstract for them to fully grasp.

At 9, most are able to understand the implications of not being in their seats properly, are able to sit in a relatively still manner for a longer time.

mommaon112903 · Sep 2, 2009

Sum1Else said:
IWhat I think is interesting is that several have mentioned that it is fine for a 9 year old at this weight to be in a booster or to have a choice. What if the same weight child was a 4 year old?

Not trying to incite an argument here. Just trying to see reasoning.

Kashi has already pointed out some very good reasons why a 4yr old is not safe in a booster vs a 9yr old. Being out of position, even for a brief moment, can become fatal, and there are not many 4yr olds who can use the booster properly each and every time.

The belts are also far more likely to fit the 9yr old better than the 4yr old.

carseatcoach · Sep 2, 2009

There is quite a bit of physical and developmental maturity between ages 4 and 9. I would probably give a child a choice around age 7 (maybe 6, depending on the child).

I'd rather see a 40# 9yo in a booster than a 45# 3yo.

I'd rather see a 32# 5yo FFing than a 34# 18mo.

There are minimum weights and they matter -- we should not use seats outside of the tested limits -- but after the minimums, age counts far more than weight, IMO.

capeKO71 · Sep 2, 2009

I too would probably move onto a booster - at least for the older two.

joolsplus3 · Sep 2, 2009

4 year olds have proportionately huge heads and narrow shoulders, 9 yo's are approaching their adult proportions, smaller heads, broader shoulders. A single shoulderstrap is more likely to hold them back better. Plus, the Volvo study (on the nhtsa.gov site), said kids 2-4 are at higher risk of head injury in boosters, so it seems imprudent to ever recommend boostering a 4 yo (unless the parent demands it... sigh...real world strikes again, and if 'the box' says 3 and 30, it's hard to fight it!)

Maedze · Sep 2, 2009

Nine year olds are more correctly proportioned (don't have huge heads), and their spines are going to be fully developed and mature, as opposed to a four year old who may still have a not-fully ossified spinal column.

To be perfectly frank, I am actually not comfortable with the idea of harnessing an older child who can sit safely in a booster. I worry about neck loads, particularly considering the seat is untethered. In that regards, I agree with Splash.

Question WWYD?? Extended harness for 9 year olds?

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