Spam me...why lap only, not lap/booster

Judi

CPST/Firefighter
No way to use a lap/shoulder. At a car seat clinic now. Got 3 kids, on lap/shoulder, all the rest, lap belt. Want NHSTA stuff, good stuff, please.
 
Last edited:
ADS

Maedze

New member
NHTSA actually recommends using a booster with a lap only belt, if the lap belt fit alone isn't a good one and there are no other options.
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
It's a choice between increased head excursion with booster or "seatbelt syndrome" with poorly fitting lap belt. Neither are good -- parental decision all the way, since I'm pretty sure both are technically misuse.
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
huh, maybe I should read the conclusion of links before posting them. :eek:

In summary, results of both the NASS and PCPS analyses suggest lower injury risks among children restrained in belt-positioning booster seats with lap belts compared with children restrained in lap belts alone. In both datasets, the percentage of children using belt-positioning booster seats with lap belts was very low. Although the sample sizes were very small and most of the differences in injury risk were not statistically significant, this study is, to our knowledge, the only examination of the injury risk associated with using belt-positioning boosters with lap belts in real-world crashes. Clearly, a lap belt only position is not optimal for booster-age children due to the lack of torso restraint. However, faced with the need to restrain a booster-age child in a lap belt only seat position, real-world crash outcomes from two large crash surveillance systems suggest that the current recommendation against using a belt-positioning booster seat is inappropriate.

so, that's in line with Maedze's post. but as it says, it's a fairly small data set and manuals and official recommendations still say not to do it. :shrug-shoulders:


adding: here's a NHTSA abstract saying BPB with lap only exceeded one or more FMVSS 213 criteria -

There were four objectives in the study: evaluation of belt positioning booster seat protection in crash environments; evaluation of belt positioning booster seat protection if used improperly; evaluation of any significant differences between use and non-use of locking clips on lap/shoulder belts with non-locking latch plates; and, evaluation of small shield booster seat protection when used with three point and lap only belts. These objectives were achieved by conducting modified FMVSS No. 213 booster seat tests using 3 and 6 year old dummies. None of the belt positioning booster seats exceeded the FMVSS No. 213 criteria when used with three point belts. The belt positioning booster seats exceeded one or more of the criteria when used with lap only belts. The use or non-use of a locking clip on three point belts with non-locking latch plates does not appear to have a distinctive influence on dummy responses. One of the 3 year dummy tests performed without the locking clip exceeded the chest injury criterion. For the small shield booster seat tests, one of the 6 year old dummy tests exceeded the head excursion limit when used with a lap only belt and all of the 3 year old dummy tests exceeded the Head Injury Criterion when tested with a three point belt. Most small shield booster seat instruction manuals state that the shoulder belt should be placed behind the child's back.
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
I'm taking the spam me request to heart :p

IIHS-

Belt-positioning booster seats are designed to be used in rear seats with vehicles' lap/shoulder belts. Most booster seat instruction manuals say you should not use the booster with a lap belt only. This is because lap belts alone still allow your child's upper body to move, so they do not protect the head and chest as well as the combination of lap/shoulder belts. Always put your child in the rear seat with lap/shoulder belts if available. However, if your only choice is to use a lap belt alone, you still should put your child in a booster seat unless the lap belt fits well by itself.

If you must frequently transport a booster-age child in a seat that has only a lap belt, consider these options to improve your child's protection:...

the bolding is theirs. it goes on to list HWH seats, vests or retrofitting proper seatbelts.

how does the lapbelt fit the kids in question?
 

Judi

CPST/Firefighter
Ok, pics!

E
age 4
40 lbs
38"
14.5" th

100_0653.jpg
100_0654.jpg


J
age 5 yr 8 m
42 lbs
42"
13.5 th

100_0656.jpg
100_0655.jpg


R
age 7
53 lbs
46"
15.5" th

100_0657.jpg
100_0658.jpg
 

Maedze

New member
It looks like the seven year old has the best lap belt fit. She'd probably be my first choice. (PS, is that a screwless TB?)
 

Wineaux

New member
This is where having a box of Twinkies would come in really handy to show the parents Twinkie Physics. It really drives home the dangers of seatbelt syndrome. Plus you get a snack each time you squish a Twinkie for safety!

No way to get the 4 year old back into a HWH seat in the center, lap only position? That would be my prefered solution.
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
From what Judi posted, there is only ONE lap/shoulder seating position available for the three children. TWO of those kids have to ride in lap-only belts. In the pics, the one they're trying out is a captain's chair.
 

Judi

CPST/Firefighter
It looks like the seven year old has the best lap belt fit. She'd probably be my first choice. (PS, is that a screwless TB?)


yes, screwless. Good thing I have screws in MY kit, because the people that put it on didn't. They also didn't have a bsc.

This is where having a box of Twinkies would come in really handy to show the parents Twinkie Physics. It really drives home the dangers of seatbelt syndrome. Plus you get a snack each time you squish a Twinkie for safety!

No way to get the 4 year old back into a HWH seat in the center, lap only position? That would be my prefered solution.

Mom was VERY receptive and is signed up with kdm, as of yesterday. I will be calling Laura B, from kdm tomorrow, to see what I can do.

No HWH seats available at out events.

From what Judi posted, there is only ONE lap/shoulder seating position available for the three children. TWO of those kids have to ride in lap-only belts. In the pics, the one they're trying out is a captain's chair.

Yes, to see fit of lap bet. We tried putting J in the front seat, with l/s, but the fit was horrible. Only R fit there.

Also, I didn't mention, the back bench seat has ONE seat belt, one. Lap only, of course. No headrests and we still have a 2 year old to throw in the mix.

Here is said lap belt.

100_0652.jpg


And said child in that postion.

100_0661.jpg
 

Car-Seat.Org Facebook Group

Forum statistics

Threads
219,655
Messages
2,196,895
Members
13,530
Latest member
onehitko860

You must read your carseat and vehicle owner’s manual and understand any relevant state laws. These are the rules you must follow to restrain your children safely. All opinions at Car-Seat.Org are those of the individual author for informational purposes only, and do not necessarily reflect any policy or position of Carseat Media LLC. Car-Seat.Org makes no representations as to accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this site and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. If you are unsure about information provided to you, please visit a local certified technician. Before posting or using our website you must read and agree to our TERMS.

Graco is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org! Britax is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org! Nuna Baby is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org!

Please  Support Car-Seat.Org  with your purchases of infant, convertible, combination and boosters seats from our premier sponsors above.
Shop travel systems, strollers and baby gear from Britax, Chicco, Clek, Combi, Evenflo, First Years, Graco, Maxi-Cosi, Nuna, Safety 1st, Diono & more! ©2001-2022 Carseat Media LLC

Top