Question How do I fit four car seats in my 03 Pilot?

Hi!

Hubby and I would like to have a fourth baby, but I'm concerned about how to get an additional car seat in our 2003 Honda Pilot. Anyone out there doing it??

We'd have 2 kids in a graco turbo booster, and 1 in a forward facing car seat and another in a rear facing car seat. As it is now with just the three of them, the two younger kids are on the sides of the 2nd row, and my oldest is on the driver's side of the 3rd row. The 3rd row seat on the passenger's side is down for the stroller.

My oldest has to climb through the trunk or the 2nd row to get to her 3rd row seat. Which she doesn't mind as much but it's difficult with other kids. Also, the middle seat in the 2nd row can only LATCH to the seat behind the passengers, which doesn't allow that seat to slide forward to give access to the 3rd row. And I can't fit two car seats in the 3rd row - only one car seat and only on the driver's side, otherwise the car seat is on top of the buckle.

ANY advice/help is appreciated!!! Don't want to be forced to get a new car to have another baby!!

Thanks!

How old are your kids and what are their weights and the carseats that you have (other than the Turboboosters)?

"Also, the middle seat in the 2nd row can only LATCH to the seat behind the passengers, which doesn't allow that seat to slide forward to give access to the 3rd row."

This confuses me because a 2003 should have LATCH and top tether anchor points for several seating positions. Check in your vehicle owners manual to see where they are. If you can tell us, that will help alot. And can you explain which car seat is LATCH'ed or Anchored to the passenger seat? Do you mean front passenger? Or the LATCH anchors are behind the 2nd row freely/independantly from the 2rd row seat?

Just a little FYI- LATCH is the lower anchors on the seat that thread through the seat at the bottom. The top anchor is attached to the top behind the head.

And how many seatbelts do you have on the 2nd and 3rd rows? I know you said that the stroller takes up a portion of that area, but to get 4 in there comfortably you might need to shift some things around.

Off the top of my head, my first suggestions would be to keep the oldest in the turbo on the third row. Put your FF toddler in the 2rd row behind the driver, and the new baby in the middle using the seatbelt, not LATCH. You won't normally have a top tether for rear facing. Then have the second turbo booster on the passenger side 2nd row.

You will probably need at least one Radian in this mix. It's easier to tell you if we know what seats you already have.

And I'd reccommend not putting the stroller next to the 3rd row seat. It can be thrown around the vehicle interior in a crash or sudden stop and cause severe injuries. I'm guessing it is a bigger stroller- is it possible, especially if you do have a fourth, to get something smaller that will fit in the tiny area behind the third row? One suggestion would be a stroller that you attach an infant seat to, and has a platform for an older child to sit or stand on- or a double umbrella storller. They both should fold smaller than an average stroller.

"How old are your kids and what are their weights and the carseats that you have (other than the Turboboosters)?"

They are almost 8 (50lbs, graco turbo booster), 4 (41lbs, graco turbo booster), and 2 (28lbs, can't remember what kind!)

"And can you explain which car seat is LATCH'ed or Anchored to the passenger seat? Do you mean front passenger? Or the LATCH anchors are behind the 2nd row freely/independantly from the 2rd row seat?"

For the latch system in the 2nd row middle seat, there is the anchor for the top of a forward facing car seat, but not on the bottom sides, which is what i need for the rear facing seat.

"And how many seatbelts do you have on the 2nd and 3rd rows?"

There are three seatbelts in each row.

"Off the top of my head, my first suggestions would be to keep the oldest in the turbo on the third row. Put your FF toddler in the 2rd row behind the driver, and the new baby in the middle using the seatbelt, not LATCH. You won't normally have a top tether for rear facing. Then have the second turbo booster on the passenger side 2nd row."

This is what i'm thinking also, which works for the summer, but in the snowy/rainy/yucky days, i hate having her climb around to get into her seat. Plus, my 4 year old in the turbo booster can't buckle easily being right next to the car seat, since his buckle is next to the middle seat.

"You will probably need at least one Radian in this mix. It's easier to tell you if we know what seats you already have."

I'm definitely willing to buy whatever car seats i need to in order to keep my car. much cheaper then getting another one!

"And I'd reccommend not putting the stroller next to the 3rd row seat. It can be thrown around the vehicle interior in a crash or sudden stop and cause severe injuries. I'm guessing it is a bigger stroller- is it possible, especially if you do have a fourth, to get something smaller that will fit in the tiny area behind the third row? One suggestion would be a stroller that you attach an infant seat to, and has a platform for an older child to sit or stand on- or a double umbrella storller. They both should fold smaller than an average stroller."

Right now i'm just using our RightStart Sit N Stand. With another baby i'd use our snap n go or phil and ted's. i can fit any stroller behind the seats, but then that means no groceries or additional cargo...

Starting to look at the Sunshine Systems seats, but none of those look compatible with a snap n go or phil and ted's at the infant level. Might work for the other kids, though? Luckily i'm an hour from their store in MD, and i can't figure out where else they have those seats, so i might trek out there to try them all out in the various combos. any other suggested seats to try would be welcome.

Thanks for you super quick response, i really appreciated it!

A friend of mine has an 03 Pilot. She now has 3 Radians FF in the second row but prior to that she had 2 Radians FF and a RF roundabout behind the passenger.

Ok, I've got a lot of info here... so buckle down and bear with me. LOL

1- For your 4yo, I STRONGLY reccommend putting him back into a 5-point harness. Most kids are not ready for boosters at his age and are much safer in harnessed seats. Most, if not all 4, 5 and 6yo's just don't have the maturity to sit properly in a booster seat, will put the shoulder belt under their arm, or behind them. At this link there is great info on specifically why harnessing past 4yo is safer. Please check it out:

http://www.kyledavidmiller.org/pages/4211/Car_Seat_Safety:_5-point_Harness_is_Safest.htm

I also wanted to add that if you feel like harnessing your 8yo as well, there may still be higher weight harnessing seats out there that will fit her. With her it really will depend on her height, her weight is well below the limits on most higher weight seats. But if she is mature enough to pass the 5 step test then she should be fine in her booster. The 5 step test is:

The 5-Step Test.

1. Does the child sit all the way back against the auto seat?
2. Do the child's knees bend comfortably at the edge of the auto seat?
3. Does the belt cross the shoulder between the neck and arm?
4. Is the lap belt as low as possible, touching the thighs?
5. Can the child stay seated like this for the whole trip?

2- "And can you explain which car seat is LATCH'ed or Anchored to the passenger seat? Do you mean front passenger? Or the LATCH anchors are behind the 2nd row freely/independantly from the 2rd row seat?"

For the latch system in the 2nd row middle seat, there is the anchor for the top of a forward facing car seat, but not on the bottom sides, which is what i need for the rear facing seat. "

There are no LATCH anchors that can be used in the center position in a 2003 Pilot. But double check me on this, I don't have a manual only the internet. It will be in your vehicle owners manual under LATCH. The LATCH anchors are the ones in the seat bight (where the seat bottom and back meet). I'm am 99% positive that what you think are the center LATCH anchors are actually the outboard position anchors. You can ONLY use these on the driver and passenger side outboard positions. And you cannot in any way attach more than one carseat to a set of anchors. Anchors also have weight limits, so if you do install a seat with LATCH- you need to re-install it with the seatbelt when the child reaches the weight limit. (I'm pretty sure that Honda's LATCH weight limit is 40lbs). You CAN however, use the top tether anchors in all seating positions that it is available- still only one carseat per anchor. You can also find out where all of the top tether anchors are in your vehicle owners manual.

On this same topic, that I know of, there is no vehicle that has top tether points specifically for tethering a rear facing seat. Most carseats do not allow for tethering rearfacing(RF). The only seats that allow this are Britax seats and the Sunshine Kids Radians. If you do get one of these seats, then they will provide you with a d-ring and instructions to create a RFing tether point.

Still with me?Ok, now for seating and carseats.

I would reccommend putting your 8yo in her Turbo Booster in the driver side third row seat.

I would also put your 4yo inthe 3rd row in a harnessed booster. The Britax Frontier and Graco Nautilus are both highly reccommended. The Frontier harnesses to 80lbs and then converts to a belt positioning booster up to 100lbs. The top harness slots are higher on this than on the Nautilus, so it would last him longer (most kids outgrow by height, not weight). Frontiers run about $229. The Nautilus harnesses to 65lbs then converts to a high back, and a no-back booster. The no-back booster portion is good for 9 years instead of the customary six, so you might get a little more use out of that portion, especially with the younger child(ren). It runs about $150 at Walmart.


Now, with your 2yo and new baby there are a couple of options.

I would suggest that you turn the 2yo back rearfacing. He/she is under the RFing weight limit and it is so much safer to RF. The American Academy of Pediatrics now reccommends that all children ride RFing until at least age 2 or to the limits of their carseat. This is your choice, again, if you want more info let me know.

I would say put the 2yo behind the driver. You can create the RF top tether point here (if you decide to RF) and it will be easier to get her in and out in this position. This seat will also be harder to manuver around so having it on the inside will be easier as well(when moving around/entering from the passenger side door, since the 2nd row folds down there).

However, when you graduate the baby out of an infant seat to a convertible that is RFing, I would move the 2yo to the center(if forward facing) and put the baby behind the driver.

Which means, that if the 2yo is RFing behind the driver, then put the baby in the center 2nd row. If you are using an infant seat you won't have a top tether to worry about and the most common infant seats are a snap to install with seatbelts, since you catch use LATCH in the center. With the infant seat in the center, you'll be able to fold down the pass. side to access the 3rd row, even if the base is already in there it should work, and you will have a lot more room for everyone to get in if you put the baby in last.

Now the exceptions are if both the baby and 2yo are RF AND in covertibles. it doesn't matter who is where as long are you have one in the center and one behind the driver. Even if both end up having RF top tethers you can have one in the center(with the seatbelt of course).



For your 2yo: Since I don't know what kind of seat you have I'm just going to suggest some, let me know if you want more info either on your seat or any other you find.

Look at:
First Years TrueFit (RF35lbs, FF65lbs- highest top harness slots and super tall shell)
Sunshine Kids Radian(65,80,XT) They all RF to 40lbs (since Sept. 08) and FF to 65 or 80lbs, has RF top tether
Complete Air- RF40lbs, FF65lbs, very tall shell, side impact protection
Graco MyRide 65- RF 40lbs, FF65lbs. similar to Britax Marathon in size
Britax Marathon: RF 35lbs, FF65, has RF top tether, side impact protection


For the baby, if you need a new seat: I'd look at the Graco SnugRide 32, and Chicco Keyfit 30. They are larger infant seats with higher weight limits. The basic Keyfit and Snugride are smaller and have lower weights, but are just as easy to install.

So, quick overview, 8yo in turbo booster 3rd row driver side, 4yo harnessed booster 3rd row passenger side, 2yo RF or FF convertible 2nd row behind driver, baby infant seat center 2nd row.

The only major preblme I see with this is that you are going to have limited storage space for stroller groceries etc. I would suggest getting the most compact stroller that meets your needs and the largest plastic bin(s) w/ lids that will fit in your cargo area. When you need to carry groceries AND the stroller put the groceries in the bins, and store the stroller on top. Keep in mind you still want to secure the stroller etc. You could also place some groceries in the front seat if you had to.

Wow- that's a ton if info. I hope you got it all and I didn't over whelm you! PLEASE let me know if you have ANY questions...I'll try to be much simpler next time. 4 carseats and seating, plus storage is a lot to cover!

There are no LATCH anchors that can be used in the center position in a 2003 Pilot. But double check me on this, I don't have a manual only the internet. It will be in your vehicle owners manual under LATCH. The LATCH anchors are the ones in the seat bight (where the seat bottom and back meet). I'm am 99% positive that what you think are the center LATCH anchors are actually the outboard position anchors. You can ONLY use these on the driver and passenger side outboard positions.

Click to expand...

Actually, I think what she was saying is that she has a tether anchor only in that position, no lower anchors.

That's okay. You can use a seatbelt to install. You need a seatbelt OR LATCH to install a seat, not both, and both are equally safe as long as both give a good install (less than 1 inch of movement at the belt path.)

Thanks for clarifying that! I couldn't figure out if she meant the bottom sides of the center position or the bottom sides meaning a place to tether to RFing outboard. It could have been either so I tried to cover that. I think the term "LATCH system" in reference to the 2nd row center position threw me off as well as saying she needed it for a RF ing seat.

I tried to cover my bases with both, but I was worried it might have gotten confusing with so much information there. And thanks for adding the info about only using one installation method and how tight it should be! The simplest info got lost in the mix.

That's why this board is great, lots of eyes to look things over and heads to come up with ideas.

Here is what I've decided about the car - but without trying it all out -

Combinations for keeping the 2nd AND 3rd row seats behind the passenger down, and putting the infant seat in LAST so the 2nd row seat can go up and down/forward and back easily:

2nd row: Chicco Key Fit (17"base) for baby in the middle
Recaro Como for 2yr old behind driver (appears narrower than the radian in online specs - can anyone confirm this???)

3rd row: Britax StarRiser (14"base) (or Sunshine Kids monterey (15" base) or Graco AirBooster or Fisher Price Safe Voyage for 4yr old on the driver's side) - whatever is narrower and allows for maximum seatbelt buckling room - or another Recaro Como
Britax StarRiser base (or one of the ones mentioned directly above) for 7 yr old in the middle, or the safe rider vest

Options: Keep all 3rd row seats up and put 4 yr old on the passenger's side 3rd row, 7 year old in the middle or the driver's side. Leaving a spare seat for another kid/groceries, and allowing easier 3rd row access for the older kids.

If the passenger's side 3rd row seat is up OR down, put the stroller behind the net across the back of the 3rd row seats. Use down 3rd row seat for large, light grocery items (like paper towels, toilet paper, etc). Use the 2nd row seat behind the passenger and the floor for groceries, and the front seat. OR, when getting groceries, put the stroller on the 2nd row floor and use truck.

PROBLEM: Britax StarRiser is no longer being made. Anyone have experience with the Monterey or AirBooster as a comparison? (buckle room, seat base width, sleep support, etc?) Thought I saw another Britax or Sunshine Kids that had an adjustable base, but can't find it now... Anyone know what i'm talking about?

Oh yeah, and I have one large German Shepherd/Rottie mix dog that needs to go in the car too! Guess I can use that 2nd row seat since she doesn't fit in the trunk with the 3rd row seats up... Boy, we will be crammed for a while!

The placement of each child sounds good. I'd reconsider some of the seats you asked about though.

The Britax Starriser(and it's base) were discontinued in 2003 which makes every one of them expired, except for the select few that would still have a few months to them. Most carseats are going to expired 6 years after the date of manufacture. It will be on a sticker somewhere on the base or bottom of the seat.

The Fisher Price Safe Voyage is discontinued as well. If you already own one that is not expired then I'd use it for your 4yo if he still fits. You could also use it for your 2yo until it expires. I wouldn't suggesting buying a used one (too many dangers) or even a "new" one. I think even the newest Safe Voyages would be 3 years old already. You'd have already lost half of it's life.

The Air Booster soesn't look like it is going to provide any added safety over the traditional Turbo Booster. The only benefit I noticed was that the seat might be a little cooler and more comfy.

The Monterey is a good booster, and if you do not plan on keeping him in a 5-point harness then I would probabley reccommend this one. It has the most side impact protection and overall in my opinion is one of the best dedicated boosters out there. It may however take up more space than you are expecting especially as your son grows.

Is there a reason you want to put your 8yo in the Safe Rider Vest? I'm a bit confused...are you planning on putting your 4yo in a traditional booster, and your 8 yo in (effectively) a 5-point harness? Why not keep the 8yo in her turbo booster?

I'm not really sure if I would suggest a vest for regular use. While it may be safe enough, she would have to get in and out of the vest for every trip. For occasional use I think they are great, but constantly having to remove the harness to go into Target, a library, or a restaurant and then get back into it would be very tedious, especially for her. Most kids aren't going to have that much patience.

If you are wanting them in harnessed seats, knowing their height when seated from floor to shoulder, would be the most helpful.

Regarding the Recaro Como they are very nice seats, but not highly reccommended. For the cost you don't get much. They lack the ease of use of many other seats, the lock-offs and a RF tether, they are pretty narrow in the seat, which can be uncomfortable for kids as they grow older. Most people won't get any ore use out of them than any of the other 65lb harnessing convertibles out there. I could not find a maximum outside seat width, the base it 14inches, the interior of the seat is 15" but the sides look like they stick out a bit. You'd get more time out of a Truefit or Radian(with the 2yo). I'd still suggest the Frontier or Nautilus for the 4yo.

As for the dog, you might want to keep in mind that if the dog is in the 2nd row it will be next to the infant seat. Will that work? I know some dogs ride well, others do not. Also, keep in mind that if the dog is not restrained, and there is a crash that the dog will not only be severely injured but could also cause serious injury to the vehicle occupants. They do make pet harnesses, but I do not know if they are crash tested or approved in any way. Traveling with pets is tricky. Hopefully someone else will have some better advice on this one.

Recaro como isn't narrow. You will want to be looking at the Sunshine Kids Radian for a narrow harness seat. Britax has a newer booster called the Britax Parkway Slideguard, which would be a good fit for your 8 year old. If your 4 year old fits with growing room I'd get a radian. Your 2 year old can also go in the radian, if you rear face it you will get more room as the radian only has a 12 inch wide base. I would harness your 4 year old, booster your 8 year old. 4 is young for full time booster use, we like to see kids make it to 5 or 6 in harness seats due to maturity. Plus the radian is super narrow.

I would be shocked if you can't get a RF radian, Parkway, FF radian 3 across your 2nd row. It might even fit 3 across in your 3rd row. I would suggest consulting a CPST in person for help with the install.

Ok! So i will ditch the como and other discontinued car seats, and buy a couple Radians for the middle kids. But for the baby, can the Radian go into a snap and go? I guess I can switch the baby once he/she doesn't need to be in and out in the infant carrier.

I was thinking about the vest for my daughter if absolutely necessary, but i agree that it would be cumbersome for every day use. We are homeschoolers, so she is in and out of the car WAY more than she would be if she were in school most of the day.

Is the KeyFit the narrowest infant seat with a snap in base?

THANKS EVERYONE FOR ALL THE GREAT RESPONSES!! WHAT A HUGE HELP!!

No convertible will fit in a snap and go. The babytrend infant seats are more or less the most narrow, followed closely by the keyfit.